Chinese SAC - FC-31/J-35 5th Gen Stealth Aircraft

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

View attachment 8484

And how do you know that j31 is still alive, it's secretive project of SAC, did SAC told you that j31 still alive lol

 

[Qureshi]

And how do you know that j31 is still alive, it's secretive project of SAC, did SAC told you that j31 still alive lol

 

[Peregrine]

The J35 variant of FC31 is recognized as a navy variant capable of carrier operations, whilst the J31 is an air force variant, presently in development with limited information available.

There has always been development in FC31, even though it is not publicly known; both the J35 and the J31, which are for the navy & air force, are under development; the former is well known

Yes.
To my knowledge it was PLAN and not PLAF, who would induct them first.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

View attachment 8485

Your false ego worth nothing for me

 

[Michael]

First this is most unlikel up to being impossible; if indeed the first WS-19 was flight tested only recently , they will surely not fit them into the first batches already.

Second so far two J-35 prototypes are confirmed with likely a third one flown in September. As such I think it is again almost impossible that SAC started production already.

And third, the J-35 is a PLAN project and not an PLAAF fighter …

,,, so in summary, all you said is most speculative at best and highly likely simply false.

抱歉，英文水平有限，请自行翻译！
这个消息来源渠道确实是624所WS19项目组，是否真实，请自行判断。
补充说明：首批WS19订单已提交工厂生产中，数量大约120台——由此推断首批J35数量大约15架。120/（（1+3）*2）=15
消息渠道说，首批J35确实是交付空军而不是海军。

 

[Oscar]

抱歉，英文水平有限，请自行翻译！
这个消息来源渠道确实是624所WS19项目组，是否真实，请自行判断。
补充说明：首批WS19订单已提交工厂生产中，数量大约120台——由此推断首批J35数量大约15架。120/（（1+3）*2）=15
消息渠道说，首批J35确实是交付空军而不是海军。

I appreciate your input to the thread - it would be truly appreciated if you also used English as it the common language understood by all members and encourages participation in discussions.

 

[Malik]

抱歉，英文水平有限，请自行翻译！
这个消息来源渠道确实是624所WS19项目组，是否真实，请自行判断。
补充说明：首批WS19订单已提交工厂生产中，数量大约120台——由此推断首批J35数量大约15架。120/（（1+3）*2）=15
消息渠道说，首批J35确实是交付空军而不是海军。

(translation)
Sorry, my English level is limited, please translate by yourself!
The source of this news is indeed the WS19 project team of 624 Institute. Please judge for yourself whether it is true or not.
Supplementary note: The first batch of WS19 orders has been submitted to the factory for production, with a quantity of about 120 units - which infers that the first batch of J35s is about 15 units. 120/((1+3)*2)=15
Sources say that the first batch of J35s is indeed delivered to the Air Force rather than the Navy.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan recently announced a plan to procure FC-31 stealth fighter jets from China, a move experts said will not only significantly enhance the Pakistan Air Force's capabilities, but also open up the international market for the Chinese aircraft, marking a win-win cooperation.

The Pakistan Air Force introduced its transformative modernization initiative in a press release posted on its social media platforms on Tuesday.

A key milestone in this strategic transformation has been the acquisition of fifth-generation stealth fighter jets, the foundation of whose induction into the Pakistan Air Force has already been laid, the Pakistan Air Force said.

According to a video attached with the press release, the fifth-generation stealth fighter jet to be inducted is China's FC-31.

This confirmed media reports earlier this month that Pakistan is seeking to purchase the FC-31.

Pakistan's Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu said at an induction ceremony for new equipment on January 2 that the FC-31 would enter service in the near future, US media outlet Defense News reported.

Independently developed by the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the FC-31 is a single-seat, twin-engine, medium stealth fighter jet that analysts said is comparable with, if not superior to, the US' F-35.

The FC-31 has strong comprehensive air combat capabilities, including its stealth advantages that allow it to spot opponents first and launch surprises attacks, Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

The aircraft has outstanding situational awareness and can carry a wide selection of munitions, including not only air-to-air missiles, but also precision bombs as well as air-to-ground and air-to-surface missiles, Wei said.

The Pakistan Air Force has long been using weapons and equipment procured from China, including J-10C medium fighter jets, JF-17 light fighter jets, HQ-9BE long-range surface-to-air missile systems, HQ-16FE mid-to-long-range surface-to-air missile systems and the YLC-8E anti-stealth 3D surveillance radar systems, according to the video it published.

Pakistan will have no difficulties integrating the FC-31 into its combat systems, and the stealth aircraft will in return significantly enhance its military capabilities by a generation, experts said.

The FC-31 will allow the Pakistan Air Force to enjoy a generational gap over its rivals with fast delivery, while Pakistan's main rival will not likely get stealth fighter jets anytime soon, Wei said.

The purchase plan will also benefit China, Wei said, noting that if Pakistan finalizes the deal, other countries, particularly those from the Middle East, could also follow.

In potential joint exercises with other countries, the Pakistan Air Force could display the capabilities of the FC-31, and more potential customers will get to know how competitive the Chinese aircraft is, Wei said.

Pakistan’s plan to buy Chinese FC-31 stealth fighter jets ‘win-win cooperation’ - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[FuturePAF]

Any estimate on the price/cost of the WS-19 engine? The cost of the F-35’s engine is said to cost $14 million.

$14M engine of F-35 is destroyed after engineer left FLASHLIGHT inside

A $14 million F-35 get engine was written off after a mechanic left a flashlight in the engine following repairs, and then switched the engine on. The engine appeared to be working normally, but then clanged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[corven]

I am skeptical about the J31 being delivered to the Air Force. If this were the case, the Air Force would not have chosen the J20 in the first place. Although Shenfei's design and manufacturing capabilities have improved a lot this year, there is still a gap. The impression given by Shenfei is that they only copy and improve, without any originality of their own. This reminds me of the J11's weight iron block. The choice of navy is just a balancing act for the country. Otherwise, J31 would not be allowed to export. The J20 is still not allowed to be exported.

 

[Oscar]

I am skeptical about the J31 being delivered to the Air Force. If this were the case, the Air Force would not have chosen the J20 in the first place. Although Shenfei's design and manufacturing capabilities have improved a lot this year, there is still a gap. The impression given by Shenfei is that they only copy and improve, without any originality of their own. This reminds me of the J11's weight iron block. The choice of navy is just a balancing act for the country. Otherwise, J31 would not be allowed to export. The J20 is still not allowed to be exported.

The J-20 was chosen from among 2 Chengdu and 1 shenyang design. Source is former CPD JF-17 who frequented Chengdu.

 

[FuturePAF]

J-31 for Pakistan? (No Hump behind the cockpit as on the PLANAF J-35) EOTS deleted? Supposedly the EOTS is still there but I don’t see it.


Credit to @LouisCheung_HK on twitter

 

[Oscar]

J-31 for Pakistan? (No Hump behind the cockpit as on the PLANAF J-35) EOTS deleted? Supposedly the EOTS is still there but I don’t see it.
View attachment 13216

Credit to @LouisCheung_HK on twitter

@Deino ????
Too many assumptions I think?

 

[Harbyharb]

I am skeptical about the J31 being delivered to the Air Force. If this were the case, the Air Force would not have chosen the J20 in the first place. Although Shenfei's design and manufacturing capabilities have improved a lot this year, there is still a gap. The impression given by Shenfei is that they only copy and improve, without any originality of their own. This reminds me of the J11's weight iron block. The choice of navy is just a balancing act for the country. Otherwise, J31 would not be allowed to export. The J20 is still not allowed to be exported.

There are two different configurations of J-35 already observed, one with enlarged wing area allegedly for carrier ops. Note the difference in wing geometry and intake features. As for why I think air force J-35 would be necessary, see this post right here: https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...n-fighter-aircraft-from-china.1398/post-29149

Saying that Shenyang can only copy and improve is a very crude over generalization, as many of the pioneering technologies such as digital flight controls, BVR tactics with ARH missiles, and non-linear impact of canards over flight characteristics, were all conducted with the SAC's J-8B Finback platform variants.

The misconception of SAC's ability is mainly due to their focus with the flanker platform in recent years, which in my opinion, the ability to "copy and improve" upon the crude but promising flanker platform is not an indication of inferiority. By the collapse of the USSR, the flanker platform is more of an unfinished product - the "digital" flight control with "relaxed" stability is more accurately described as a 5 channel analogue flight control with neutral stability, with much of the flight envelope left unexplored; the airframe structure is very unrefined, due to the lack of digital finite element analysis capability, weak in some areas but overweight in others, etc.

One of the prime example of this is the Su-27K, or Su-33. It's empty weight exceeds 18 tonnes, 2 tonnes heavier than the already cumbersome base Su-27 airframe. The canard, in post cold-war air tunnel tests, could expand the maximum usable angle of attack to 55 degrees, but due to rushed schedules and lack of funding, the base Su-33's flight control is still restricted to 24 degrees as it was originally on Su-27. The list of immaturities goes far far longer.

What SAC did was not just to imitate the russian flanker variants, but to recreate a whole series, or re-invent the flanker series to the standard and need of the PLAAF. A prime example of this the showcase of J-11B specs at Zhuhai Airshow

J-11B's MTOW is a whole 2.5 tonnes less than the J-27S. We know that J-11B have a slightly reduced internal fuel load from 9.4 tonnes to 8.5 tonnes, and they both have a usable payload of 4-4.4 tonnes. This means that the empty weight of the J-11B is just 28-4-8.5=15.5 tonnes, and that is after J-11B have already integrated electronic warfare suites that would previously be placed in pods on Su-27S and J-11A into the airframe.

Combined with the improved thrust performance of 2 WS-10A of 26.3 tonnes combined, a typical J-11B in A2A config would weigh 22.7 tonnes, and thus have a thrust to weight ratio of 1.16 - which is on par with Eurofighter typhoon, overtaking F-15 variants, elevating the flankers from one of the less powerful to one of the most powerful in kinematic performance amongst heavy 4th gen jets. The engineering prowess of SAC is not to be easily dismissed, and their specialization in structural optimization is very important for a medium stealth jet, where munition bays takes up more space in the fuselage while still restrained to medium sized engines, placing further demand on strength and weight reduction.

 

[corven]

There are two different configurations of J-35 already observed, one with enlarged wing area allegedly for carrier ops. Note the difference in wing geometry and intake features. As for why I think air force J-35 would be necessary, see this post right here: https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...n-fighter-aircraft-from-china.1398/post-29149
View attachment 13210
Saying that Shenyang can only copy and improve is a very crude over generalization, as many of the pioneering technologies such as digital flight controls, BVR tactics with ARH missiles, and non-linear impact of canards over flight characteristics, were all conducted with the SAC's J-8B Finback platform variants.

The misconception of SAC's ability is mainly due to their focus with the flanker platform in recent years, which in my opinion, the ability to "copy and improve" upon the crude but promising flanker platform is not an indication of inferiority. By the collapse of the USSR, the flanker platform is more of an unfinished product - the "digital" flight control with "relaxed" stability is more accurately described as a 5 channel analogue flight control with neutral stability, with much of the flight envelope left unexplored; the airframe structure is very unrefined, due to the lack of digital finite element analysis capability, weak in some areas but overweight in others, etc.

One of the prime example of this is the Su-27K, or Su-33. It's empty weight exceeds 18 tonnes, 2 tonnes heavier than the already cumbersome base Su-27 airframe. The canard, in post cold-war air tunnel tests, could expand the maximum usable angle of attack to 55 degrees, but due to rushed schedules and lack of funding, the base Su-33's flight control is still restricted to 24 degrees as it was originally on Su-27. The list of immaturities goes far far longer.

What SAC did was not just to imitate the russian flanker variants, but to recreate a whole series, or re-invent the flanker series to the standard and need of the PLAAF. A prime example of this the showcase of J-11B specs at Zhuhai Airshow
View attachment 13221
J-11B's MTOW is a whole 2.5 tonnes less than the J-27S. We know that J-11B have a slightly reduced internal fuel load from 9.4 tonnes to 8.5 tonnes, and they both have a usable payload of 4-4.4 tonnes. This means that the empty weight of the J-11B is just 28-4-8.5=15.5 tonnes, and that is after J-11B have already integrated electronic warfare suites that would previously be placed in pods on Su-27S and J-11A into the airframe.

Combined with the improved thrust performance of 2 WS-10A of 26.3 tonnes combined, a typical J-11B in A2A config would weigh 22.7 tonnes, and thus have a thrust to weight ratio of 1.16 - which is on par with Eurofighter typhoon, overtaking F-15 variants. The engineering prowess of SAC is not to be easily dismissed, and their specialization in structural optimization is very important for a medium stealth jet, where munition bays takes up more space in the fuselage while still restrained to medium sized engines, placing further demand on strength and weight reduction.

You have too high expectations for Shen Fei. J-20 Chief Engineer Yang Wei is the founder of China’s CNC flight system. Whether it is Diverterless supersonic inlet, the CNC flying transmission system or the canards, they have nothing to do with Shen Fei. That's Chengfei's product. Don’t forget, J10 is the product of Cheng Fei. It is inconsistent with basic logic to say that Shen Fei understands canards better than Cheng Fei. Shen Fei generally only makes modifications. One J8 produced 8 academicians of the Academy of Sciences, which is a great legend in China. As for Yang Wei, he was not admitted as an academician of the Academy of Sciences in his first year. Chinese bureaucrats are not ordinary.