Whatever

[vsdoc]

Easy to put it down to that but there is more.

Communication glitch, cultural misunderstandings

mallab, unko laga ki "je to bezti kar ra"

bharat mata ka ghor apman

ab toh talwarein chalengi !

we are like this only

All of that belongs to and emanates from the class the sangh has mobilized to get to and stay in power.

The real power is still held by upper crust Hindus.

Its a turf war. Where they are jockeying for juicier/est chunks.

The Brahmin class is good at this. Maintaining its social preeminence, regardless of political and social turmoil.

Domestic or foreign.

They were equally at ease in what you call Lutyens India.

And the British before them.

And the Mughals before them.

The great survivors.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sharma Ji]

Har mulk, har democracy ki same kahani hai.

but then this stream flows into political nihilism

nimbu paani pio, khush raho !

 

[Joe Shearer]

eh ?

If you misbehave, while you are on probation, your probation will be extended.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The great survivors

The great dominant class.

 

[Joe Shearer]

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Irony wrapped in satire wrapped in panauti.

Cheers, Doc

Thunderous.

 

[vsdoc]

The great dominant class.

But they do a good job not being over vocal and staying in the shadows.

Regardless what they say, I believe historically the pen is overrated.

Tectonic shifts and empires are made and broken only with the sword.

These guys have survived all of that. Virtually untouched. Unpurged.

As an Athrvan (equivalent of your Brahmin class say of the Peshwas ... warrior priests) I admire that.

We did not have that luxury....

Even today, ever fire temple in its inner sanctum has swords and shields. Even lances.

That should tell you something.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sharma Ji]

If you misbehave, while you are on probation, your probation will be extended.

Good thing I haven't thus far

 

[Joe Shearer]

Good thing I haven't thus far

If you had not, your probation period would not have shifted. If it has shifted.

 

[Sharma Ji]

If you had not, your probation period would not have shifted. If it has shifted.

ek toh angreji, upar se riddal waali

dekho, humari samajh se bhar ki cheezein na bole karo.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Regardless what they say, I believe historically the pen is overrated

I am not so sure.
When the class, the caste was born, it was not unknown for them to take to arms.

• The first perturbation was by the Achaemenids. That incursion, by then in the remote border lands, the centre of gravity having shifted to Magadha, passed without reaction.
• The second was by the Alexandrian Greeks. Laughably shallow.
• The third was by the Bactrian Greeks. That received as little attention as the preceding one, and there is nothing much in Indian texts to give us a clue. There are only a couple of references in Panini's grammar, where they are mentioned in the course of a phrase illustrating a point of grammar. We learn that the Greeks were vicious and they were valiant.
• Then came the Sakas. Within a generation, they were worshipping in the temples that were being built, donating wealth to religious causes, and getting assimilated.
• Their great foes from the steppes followed. They fell even harder. By this time, Buddhism was widely followed. The kushan became the most powerful advocates of Buddhism until that time. What did that have to do with the Brahmins? Nothing. It had everything to do with their successors.
• The Huns followed. They killed everyone, from all segments of society. Much of the gory descriptions of later events are first encountered in these times.
• However, after the Huns, in the early centuries of a new millennium, before and after the Guptas,new social classes are recorded and become visible and influential. That leads to the inevitable speculation that the Brahmins brought these invaders or the previous two waves to dock into the caste system. It is also interesting to note that caste started to be immutable, no changes possible, system around 800 A D. That was very soon after the north Indian backlash against the Huns. Was there a connection? Nobody is quite sure, although these are widely speculated upon by very serious authorities.

After the Huns, in various waves, India was left alone until the Turks, and then the Afghans, finally the Mughals came into India.
What happened to them is an entirely different story and deserves separate treatment.

So the point is not so clearcut and sharply different, Doc. The pen was influential throughout, and the Brahmins took to arms and were kings right through. For instance, as the succeeding dynasty to the Mauryas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

ek toh angreji, upar se riddal waali

dekho, humari samajh se bhar ki cheezein na bole karo.

Do try not to fake innocence under the cover of language. It is not amusing, only irritating.

 

[Sharma Ji]

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[vsdoc]

I am not so sure.
When the class, the caste was born, it was not unknown for them to take to arms.

• The first perturbation was by the Achaemenids. That incursion, by then in the remote border lands, the centre of gravity having shifted to Magadha, passed without reaction.
• The second was by the Alexandrian Greeks. Laughably shallow.
• The third was by the Bactrian Greeks. That received as little attention as the preceding one, and there is nothing much in Indian texts to give us a clue. There are only a couple of references in Panini's grammar, where they are mentioned in the course of a phrase illustrating a point of grammar. We learn that the Greeks were vicious and they were valiant.
• Then came the Sakas. Within a generation, they were worshipping in the temples that were being built, donating wealth to religious causes, and getting assimilated.
• Their great foes from the steppes followed. They fell even harder. By this time, Buddhism was widely followed. The kushan became the most powerful advocates of Buddhism until that time. What did that have to do with the Brahmins? Nothing. It had everything to do with their successors.
• The Huns followed. They killed everyone, from all segments of society. Much of the gory descriptions of later events are first encountered in these times.
• However, after the Huns, in the early centuries of a new millennium, before and after the Guptas,new social classes are recorded and become visible and influential. That leads to the inevitable speculation that the Brahmins brought these invaders or the previous two waves to dock into the caste system. It is also interesting to note that caste started to be immutable, no changes possible, system around 800 A D. That was very soon after the north Indian backlash against the Huns. Was there a connection? Nobody is quite sure, although these are widely speculated upon by very serious authorities.

After the Huns, in various waves, India was left alone until the Turks, and then the Afghans, finally the Mughals came into India.
What happened to them is an entirely different story and deserves separate treatment.

So the point is not so clearcut and sharply different, Doc. The pen was influential throughout, and the Brahmins took to arms and were kings right through. For instance, as the succeeding dynasty to the Mauryas.

I am aware of the early warrior sages and their lines.

I'm forgetting his name. Parashuram? It was something else. Agnihotri?

There is no doubt that when war comes to your land, everyone must fight.

Its just that with us, we were fighting at the head of armies till Europe, as matter of social and royalty battle structure.

That is why I referred to the Peshwas.

Don't know about earlier examples, if any. I assumed that the rulers would mainly be from the warrior Kshatriya class.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am aware of the early warrior sages and their lines.

I'm forgetting his name. Parashuram? It was something else. Agnihotri?

There is no doubt that when war comes to your land, everyone must fight.

Its just that with us, we were fighting at the head of armies till Europe, as matter of social and royalty battle structure.

That is why I referred to the Peshwas.

Don't know about earlier examples, if any. I assumed that the rulers would mainly be from the warrior Kshatriya class.

Cheers, Doc

Parasuram was right.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't know about earlier examples, if any. I assumed that the rulers would mainly be from the warrior Kshatriya class.

Surprisingly, they weren't. I could go through a list of dynasties, but just to illustrate the point, neither the Mauryas nor the Guptas were. The successors to the Mauryas were Brahmin, and quite reactionary, compared to Ashoka the Great.
There is a lot of myth-building about the Indian state, both contemporary and subsequent.