Turkish Engine Programs

[MMM-E]

Some countries in the region, such as Greece and Egypt combined do not have even total of 250 Cruise Missiles

Turkiye's annual production of 500 cruise missiles is excellent, and this number will exceed 1,000 annually in a few years.

SOM , ATMACA , CAKIR to be launched from land - naval and air platforms

Only France and Türkiye have this capability in Europe to produce their own Cruise Missiles with their own turbojet engines

and we have now gotten rid of our dependence on France in turbojet engine for Cruise Missiles and Turkiye has also started exporting turbojet engines

Thanks to KALE ARGE

 

[MMM-E]

The most difficult technology in the world is to make a gas turbine Aircraft Engine


China was able to finish the J-20's 35,000 lbf WS-15 Turbofan Engine in 18 years despite Russia's technology and material transfer


TEI fired the TF-6000 Engine from plain white paper in 3 years despite all kinds of embargoes


We are still at the beginning of the road
and Turkish Defense Industry says we could see the 35,000 lbf turbofan engine until 2030


SAHAEXPO 2024

TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine


TEI TF-6.000 Turbofan Engine



TEI TF-10.000 Turbofan Engine


Turkiye is on the way of becoming the 6th country in the world to develop these technologies after USA , The UK , France , USSR ( Russia-Ukraine ) and China

 

[hyperman]

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TEI CEO, My Akşit:We are working on the turboshaft engines of the T925 and Atak-2, but I can't say at what stage. We received such a request and we are working on it

@MMM-E

@Merzifonlu it looks like its happening.

Both the Turboprop version of the TS1400 as well as a Turbo Shaft to power the T925 and ATAK 2.

 

[Merzifonlu]

@hyperman ;

I think TEI's this 3000 HP class turboshaft engine is still in the feasibility phase and they are trying to decide right now.

IMO, they should be looking into whether it would be cheaper to simply copy the GE T700 engine or develop an engine family based on the TF-6000's core.

If the GE T700 is simply copied, we will have a single engine, but the process will be quite fast.

Because we produce almost everything about the GE T700 engine, including the hot sector, and we are very experienced about this engine. On the other hand, if we simply copy the T700 engine, this action will unnecessarily damage TEI's relations with GE.

If we continue with the TF-6000's core, we will have an engine family that can meet all future needs. But this option requires more time. And time is a luxury we don't have right now.

 

[hyperman]

@hyperman ;

I think this 3000 HP class turboshaft engine is still in the feasibility phase and they are trying to decide right now.

IMO, they should be looking into whether it would be cheaper to simply copy the GE T700 engine or develop an engine family based on the TF-6000's core.

If the GE T700 is simply copied, we will have a single engine, but the process will be quite fast. Because we produce almost everything about the GE T700 engine, including the hot sector, and we are very experienced about this engine.

If we continue with the TF-6000's core, we will have an engine family that can meet all future needs. But this option requires more time.

I think its worth building from Scratch instead of copying, b/c frankly as good as that engine is, it is old, despite it being continuously tuned and updated. Not to mention the IP issues with GE.

If you copy maybe its almost as good or as good as the T700, but going forward long term, its not a competitive engine. b/c GE is already in the process of phasing out that engine, all the UH-60 Black Hawks and Apaches in the US inventory are set to be reengined with the Next Generation General Electric T901 (GE3000), and future production of those platforms or their successors are going to be engined with those aircraft. Pratt and Whitney and Honeywell are also set to enter the market with the ATEC T900 (HPW3000), and thats just the Americans, the French developed the Safron Aneto not too long ago, and its relatively new.

It just won't be very competitive compared to what will be available on the market when it reaches mass production, which will hinder the sales of the helicopters it is equipped with.

Far better to keep the License production of the T700 going and having it fit the domestic helicopters and wait for the new engine to be ready as a drop in replacement or engine a variant of the helicopter, IMO.

edit: more details on the T901 compared to the T700.

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[Merzifonlu]

I think its worth building from Scratch instead of copying, b/c frankly as good as that engine is, it is old, despite it being continuously tuned and updated. Not to mention the IP issues with GE.

If you copy maybe its almost as good or as good as the T700, but going forward long term, its not a competitive engine. b/c GE is already in the process of phasing out that engine, all the UH-60 Black Hawks and Apaches in the US inventory are set to be reengined with the Next Generation General Electric T901 (GE3000), and future production of those platforms or their successors are going to be engined with those aircraft. Pratt and Whitney and Honeywell are also set to enter the market with the ATEC T900 (HPW3000), and thats just the Americans, the French developed the Safron Aneto not too long ago, and its relatively new.

It just won't be very competitive compared to what will be available on the market when it reaches mass production, which will hinder the sales of the helicopters it is equipped with.

Far better to keep the License production of the T700 going and having it fit the domestic helicopters and wait for the new engine to be ready as a drop in replacement or engine a variant of the helicopter, IMO.

edit: more details on the T901 compared to the T700.

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As far as I know, the GE T901 project has been put on hold now due to budgetary priorities. But they will eventually switch to the T901, if not today. We can't compete with this engine by copying T700. IP issues will also be a headache.

So yes, I agree with you. I think we should focus on a family of engines designed from scratch and based on the TF-6000 core. Like the Soviet engines, these engines should use only axial compressors. This way, we can reduce costs a bit by using as many common subcomponents as possible with the TF-6000.

 

[Ohtani]

The most difficult technology in the world is to make a gas turbine Aircraft Engine


China was able to finish the J-20's 35,000 lbf WS-15 Turbofan Engine in 18 years despite Russia's technology and material transfer


TEI fired the TF-6000 Engine from plain white paper in 3 years despite all kinds of embargoes


We are still at the beginning of the road
and Turkish Defense Industry says we could see the 35,000 lbf turbofan engine until 2030


SAHAEXPO 2024

TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine
View attachment 74121

TEI TF-6.000 Turbofan Engine
View attachment 74123
View attachment 74124

TEI TF-10.000 Turbofan Engine
View attachment 74125

Turkiye is on the way of becoming the 6th country in the world to develop these technologies after USA , The UK , France , USSR ( Russia-Ukraine ) and China

China was able to produced a WS-15 engine with 35,000 lb thrust in 2006. But it took until 2023 for it be production ready. Turkey may be able to produce one 35,000lb thrust engine in 2030. But it would still be long time from production ready. It would be a miracle if Turkey can make them production ready by 2040 because of the amount of work. With engine development, there are no short cuts.

 

[hyperman]

As far as I know, the GE T901 project has been put on hold now due to budgetary priorities. But they will eventually switch to the T901, if not today. We can't compete with this engine by copying it. IP issues will also be a headache.

So yes, I agree with you. I think we should focus on a family of engines designed from scratch and based on the TF-6000 core. Like the Soviet engines, these engines should use all-axial compressors. This way, we can reduce costs a bit by using as many common subcomponents as possible with the TF-6000.

No its not on hold, 2 engines were delivered to the US Army just this year for field trials, mass production will be coming soon in couple of years. Its behind schedule b/c of COVID, but its very much close to mass production.

US Army Receives GE T901 Engines for Black Hawk Trials

The US Army has received two T901 engines from GE Aerospace for integration and testing aboard the force's UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters.

thedefensepost.com

I think you might be confusing it with the FARA program, which did get cancelled, but the engine wasn't just meant for new helicopter designs but a reengining of the Black Hawks and Apaches as well as future variants as well.

 

[Merzifonlu]

No its not on hold, 2 engines were delivered to the US Army just this year for field trials, mass production will be coming soon in couple of years.

Whatever. Since we are not planning to buy helicopter engines from the USA and also the USA has no intention of selling engines to us, the T901 program does not concern us. I think we should decide what to do as soon as possible and get to work.

 

[hyperman]

Whatever. Since we are not planning to buy helicopter engines from the USA and also the USA has no intention of selling engines to us, the T901 program does not concern us. I think we should decide what to do as soon as possible and get to work.

The license for the T-70 Black Hawks expired, but we don't know if engines themselves are expired, from what I read, the T700-TEI-701D was still being produced, someone mentioned that they were still being produced, its just that they don't have anything to fit them into, as the Sikorsky license had expired. Its one of the reasons for the speculation that the new redesigned T925 with a lower tonnage than the original is going to be essentially a replacement for that, to have the engines fitted.

Turkey is planning to produce the 2 engine variant of the GE F110 into Turkey, along with a deal for the GE 404 in Turkey for the Hurjet.

I don't think we are at the stage where they are expecting these requests to be denied.

The end of the Sikorsky License and the decision to not renew it, for all we know might have been mutual or it might have been Turkey's decision, preferring to have their own husk/body to fit the GE engines on, afterall with the license building of the T-70 as well as the Gokbey program, Turkey has essentially acquired all the building blocks to independently replicate the Black Hawk capabilities, so why stay tethered to a Sikorsky License, especially when it hinders exports.

Turkish Aerospace, TUSAŞ Engine Industries and GE Aerospace Sign MOU to Extend Collaboration on HÜRJET Advanced Training Jet Program | GE Aerospace News

GE Aerospace F404 turbofan engines would be integrated into the HÜRJET program’s new variants Complementary capabilities among three companies support success of first

www.geaerospace.com

 

[Merzifonlu]

@hyperman ;

"planning", "MOU" etc etc. LOL

So far, there has only been one agreement with GE. And it was not for aviation engines. There was a maintenance agreement for LM 2500 type ship turbines. We will maintain the aging LM 25000 turbines on a global scale. In return, we have secured the supply of turbines. That's all.

I don't think the USA has any intention of selling us any aviation engines (except for prototypes). Therefore, we need to develop and mass produce all the aviation engines we need. Like we did with UAV engines and the TS-1400 engine.

The same applies to military diesel engines used in armored vehicles, especially for Germany. They have no intention of selling military type diesel engines either. So be it. Germany will be out of the equation in 2 or 3 years. It will take 10 years for the USA to be out of the equation.

 

[hyperman]

Germany will be out of the equation in 2 or 3 years.

Quiet Marine Diesel propulsion from MTU unfortunately is a big problem for submarines.

There are only 3 Western Block countries that have this tech.

Germany, France and Japan.

Not even Spain, UK, Italy and South Korea have this, despite building their own subs, the engines they get from Germany.

Everything else is either Russian or Chinese. which has its own problems and shortcomings, not just political stuff.

This engine is a lot more difficult b/c of the noise requirement compared to tank and other vehicle engines.

 

[hyperman]

Nice Graphic I found. Only a Hurjet 404/414 missing from the equation.

South Korea has a program with Hanwa to build an engine in this class, and there is the Eurojet EJ200 as well. that can be used to power it, in case of embargo, though if the 404 is embargoed, its likely Germans will simultaneously stop the EJ200.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Quiet Marine Diesel propulsion from MTU unfortunately is a big problem for submarines.

Firstly, the so-called allies, the Germans, cannot embargo the power systems to be used in ships and submarines for fear of Russian invasion of the Black Sea. I am not saying this, the German deputy foreign minister is saying this.

Secondly, thanks to advances in battery and fuel cell technologies, our need for diesel engines used in submarines will be eliminated within 10 years. (Fuel cells charge the batteries, that's the summary.)

Besides, I said Germany will be out of the equation for armored vehicle diesels in 2-3 years. Not naval systems. But eventually Germans will be out of the equation for our all systems.

 

[hyperman]

Firstly, the so-called allies, the Germans, cannot embargo the power systems to be used in ships and submarines for fear of Russian invasion of the Black Sea. I am not saying this, the German deputy foreign minister is saying this.

They are liars, they will embargo and not think twice. Don't trust them. At different times, they give different reasons. Like when they block eurofighter then take it back, I suspect that had more to do with UK pressure and US lobbying for them to correct things than anything they say publicly.

Secondly, thanks to advances in battery and fuel cell technologies, our need for diesel engines used in submarines will be eliminated within 10 years. (Fuel cells charge the batteries, that's the summary.)

I wish, but unfortunately it hasn't gotten to that level yet in terms of efficiency and energy density. Diesel engines aren't going away as the main power source, for quite some time unfortunately. Battery density is not high enough for sustained propulsion out at sea for as long as diesel subs usually stay out at sea without refueling.