India Blocks Turkey’s BRICS Bid Over Pakistan Ties

[stanfordgrad]

Going too far Joe

They are ofcourse plausible candidates, as there always will be numerous in any large organisation, what decides the top guy tends to be internal politics and consensus

Now for that to happen simultaneously at a number of places is quite unprecedented.....or maybe these guys are indeed corporate gods.

If a CEO lasts for 5+ years and the revenues/profits/stock prices keep going up what conclusions do you draw ? Maybe it is accident... or maybe some method to the madness

By definition management jobs are political. you make it sound like it's a dirty word

 

[Joe Shearer]

No matter how you hard you try, your personal wishes do not reflect the trajectory of subservience chosen by the Sanghis.

That is the Sanghis, that is not India.

The world is quite aware of who the Uncle Sam wants as cannon fodder in the South China Sea.

Some more pipe-dreams? India is not even present in the South China Sea.

We know you have a level head, so will ignore, your futile attempts at blind jingoism.

Pot calling the kettle black? Indians generally, other than the Sanghis on line, have not needed blind jingoism. And mine is probably the most ridiculous example anyone can pick to demonstrate this trait.

Living there and facing intolerable idiocies on a daily basis can take its toll. Your response is perfectly understandable. All I can offer you is my sympathies, and condolences.

I live in Hyderabad, next to a well-known Dargah, and have no intolerable idiocies to suffer. Quite different from the small sliver that is a neighbouring country. It is amusing to see how Pakistanis continue, against all odds, to project their difficulties onto others.

And thank you for your sympathies, all of them, and your condolences. While it is tempting to point out that there are better objects for their bestowing, things are bad enough for such people without rubbing in the salt.

Now I have to go, get my winter tires installed, you please continue beating a dead horse, and blaming Pakistan. The world really couldn't care less.....

True, the world couldn't care less. It couldn't care less that a state unsuccessful in being accepted by any of the groupings that are forming is now flailing around, like the fox in the fable, explaining that having an amputated tail is actually the way to be.

Nor could it care less that Indians abroad are envied by their erstwhile neighbours.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sure Joe, Extremely surprising that your comprehension levels have taken a nose dive.

Only apparently when they fail to conform to the consolating story built up by the unsuccessful.

Maybe it's reality sinking in, that all is lost. Sanghis will ultimately destroy what took so long to build.

More wishful thinking?

Btw, we Pakistanis, have very big hearts, you can move to Pakistan if you want, and no Sanghi will ever bother you.

LOL. Even a Pakistani living abroad doesn't want to shift back to Pakistan. Why this rush of blood to the head? Who would even think of such an offer?

 

[Joe Shearer]

If a CEO lasts for 5+ years and the revenues/profits/stock prices keep going up what conclusions do you draw ? Maybe it is accident... or maybe some method to the madness

By definition management jobs are political. you make it sound like it's a dirty word

The rancour starts quite some while back.

It starts in grad school or management school.
It slowly blossoms when there is insufficient recognition at the work-place.
It is full-blown and inflamed when an Indian, any Indian, makes it to the top.

This is not acceptable.

We should have shared the desi misery, the contempt of the white folk, the anger of the black folk, and taken pride in the gradual degradation of our home country. When we do not, the grief comes out.

Then it is the country of origin. No longer the hated and feared invidual doing better than he should be doing.

Then his country of origin is actually a US ally, because it has to be an ally, having been called an ally. Then that country of origin might pick and choose to deal with whoever it wishes to, including the death-matched rival of its supposed ally, but the facts are not permitted to wriggle free of the template. That freedom to deal with others is meaningless; at core, it must remain an ally with the special connotation that it has for other countries on the sub-continent.

An ally in this special language is someone who absorbs military equipment and training, who bows on being told what to do, and who secretly seeks self-respect by working undercover against that ally. Being described as NOT an ally is not important, and proves nothing.

Being described as an ally is everything and proves that the other country did it right all along, and that today's misery and financial disrepair and economic collapse is not worth mentioning.

Amazing.

 

[r3alist]

The rancour starts quite some while back.

It starts in grad school or management school.
It slowly blossoms when there is insufficient recognition at the work-place.
It is full-blown and inflamed when an Indian, any Indian, makes it to the top.

This is not acceptable.

We should have shared the desi misery, the contempt of the white folk, the anger of the black folk, and taken pride in the gradual degradation of our home country. When we do not, the grief comes out.

Then it is the country of origin. No longer the hated and feared invidual doing better than he should be doing.

Then his country of origin is actually a US ally, because it has to be an ally, having been called an ally. Then that country of origin might pick and choose to deal with whoever it wishes to, including the death-matched rival of its supposed ally, but the facts are not permitted to wriggle free of the template. That freedom to deal with others is meaningless; at core, it must remain an ally with the special connotation that it has for other countries on the sub-continent.

An ally in this special language is someone who absorbs military equipment and training, who bows on being told what to do, and who secretly seeks self-respect by working undercover against that ally. Being described as NOT an ally is not important, and proves nothing.

Being described as an ally is everything and proves that the other country did it right all along, and that today's misery and financial disrepair and economic collapse is not worth mentioning.

Amazing.

Helping yourself to a Straw Man argument

 

[Joe Shearer]

By bringing in 9/11 who is clutching at straws, deflecting, and derailing this thread?

Sad Joe, sad.......

Nobody on this side of the fence. It remains people who are best described as looking around trying to figure out what happened to them, and why.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Helping yourself to a Straw Man argument

Refuting the mythical bogey that has been built.

 

[r3alist]

Refuting the mythical bogey that has been built.

You almost upgraded the myth to an epic, in only the way you can

 

[Pataliputra]

Reading these posts from Pakistanis, it seems they do not want India in BRICS, they also want India to interfere in the Israel-Palestine conflict and support Palestine.

 

[hussain0216]

Reading these posts from Pakistanis, it seems they do not want India in BRICS, they also want India to interfere in the Israel-Palestine conflict and support Palestine.

We understand India and the risk it poses both to our regional and to the global south, we understand the delusions of grandeur Indians have, all of it is dangerous

We also understand the sanghi and hindutva types, the mental burden of history that makes them a enemy of Muslims that we need to be aware of

If BRICS is to emerge as a counter to the western order then the primadonna nature of states like India needs to be controlled by the real powers like China

 

[Joe Shearer]

You almost upgraded the myth to an epic, in only the way you can

It is epic, in a sad way. That a dislike and a hatred can exist, however well camouflaged, at both an individual level (for some it is explicit, for others it seems to be buried deep in their sub-conscious) and a widespread collective level, is disconcerting.

My personal wish is that we should be able to help. My practical assessment is that this will remain a wish, and a personal one, because nothing said on the one side inspires any desire to help.

This seems to be a problem at individual level as well as at a collective level, as mentioned earlier, just above. Leaving aside the individual level situation, as it seems to cause further grief and anger, let us look once more - and this is for Indians to read, even more than others - at reality, and the situation as it is, not as it might be, not as substituted to form an easier target - the Straw Man - but as simply as reality can be outlined.

At the country level, the US seems to think of us as an ally. Whatever the sharp disapproval shown, for instance, on the Nijjar assassination and the Pannu threats, it doesn't seem to affect anything but the social and regular media. The US continues to think of us as allies.

Even as the US thinks us to be allies, as is the case that has been put forward, Russia thinks of us as an ally, and much of the relief that she has had from sanctions is due to China and to India.

Neither the Russians nor the Americans seem to be inclined to convert the situation into a zero-sum game. It seems, and this is said without sitting in on one of their confidential meetings discussing the situation.

Finally, while the Chinese have not said or done anything explicit, surely even the most sceptical of foreign affairs experts will have seen that the recent building of a new protocol for patrolling, and the suggestion of the two leaders meeting on the outskirts of the BRICS meeting. are straws in the wind.

So here we are, guilty of being allies to the Americans, the Russians, and strong trading partners of the Chinese. Here we are, failing to comply with the neat, abstract model, that was so satisfying and elegant. Once again, reality, the world itself as it exists, has failed to conform to that elegant model.

Whether the BJP is a crassly nationalist party or not does not affect India's status among the powerful nations.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We understand India and the risk it poses both to our regional and to the global south, we understand the delusions of grandeur Indians have, all of it is dangerous

We also understand the sanghi and hindutva types, the mental burden of history that makes them a enemy of Muslims that we need to be aware of

If BRICS is to emerge as a counter to the western order then the primadonna nature of states like India needs to be controlled by the real powers like China

I am sure that the Chinese will pay heed to your prayers, and help you out.

 

[hussain0216]

I am sure that the Chinese will pay heed to your prayers, and help you out.

If China is truly planning to safeguard itself and provide a alternative for the global south then it will ensure India is kept under control

If China fails to do this then BRICS will be a dud like saarc or something and states will once again find alternatives

 

[Joe Shearer]

Reading these posts from Pakistanis, it seems they do not want India in BRICS, they also want India to interfere in the Israel-Palestine conflict and support Palestine.

It's actually more complicated than that, if we look at the motivating forces for their current attacks on India and Indians.

They want to impose their own template on us. We may join BRICS, but must be seen with disfavour by Russia and China.

We must be there in spirit in the South China Sea, even if we have no presence there.

We must conform..

 

[ST1976]

Why Turkey’s joining BRICS should be welcomed​

It came as no surprise when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan showed interest in joining the BRICS at the Johannesburg Summit recently on 27 July, where he was invited by the South African President Ramaphosa. BRICS would become BRICST if Turkey is allowed into the grouping.

Loosely interpreted as a grouping comprising Emerging Market Economies that are trying to seek an alternative to the current international economic order, the BRICS represent some of the most populous and economically important countries of the global South. It now comprises Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. There are no rules of entry to the BRICS. Turkey is a large middle income country, a member of NATO, an Islamic nation and currently bearing a grouse against the EU and the US. It has challenged in the past the hegemony of the western countries in the world economic order and their dominance and control over the international financial institutions, the IMF and the World Bank. It has also challenged the supremacy of the dollar in the world financial system.


The BRICS summit in Johannesburg marked a decade of its existence. Even though nothing dramatic seems to be happening in BRICS summit meetings except reiteration of their pledges made in the past, they are an important marker of the challenges that the five are throwing at the workings of the current global order year after year. Throughout the year, about 100 meetings related to the BRICS are held in the country hosting the summit. There are leaders’ meetings and ministerial meetings along with their relevant working groups on diverse subjects from economy to climate change and culture. The meetings stress on democracy and pursue equality of voting rights in their working. Compared to the US dominated G7, BRICS functioning mechanism is more equal.

The rising protectionism in the western countries is hurting many of the BRICS members directly and indirectly. Thus it is not surprising that the BRICS members resolved to adapt the global order for a more Asia centric world at the Johannesburg meeting. Turkey obviously shares the BRICS declaration projecting stability and predictability of a rule based order threatened by US President Trump. China’s predicament is the worst in Trump’s recent moves towards his protectionist stance because its manufacturing capacity is the largest in the world in steel, machinery, chemicals, high-speed rail and aerospace. Its exports to the US ($505.6 billion last year) will be curtailed but so also its imports ($130.4 billion) comprising mainly of agricultural products. The BRICS members can benefit from the increase in imports from them instead of the US in the future. Brazil has benefited from China’s increase in imports of soyabeans and frozen pork after US imposed high tariffs on Chinese goods.


The members of the BRICS in Johannesburg also recommitted support for multilateralism and called upon all member countries of WTO to abide by its rules. They emphasised the central role of the UN in international affairs. They called upon all countries to fully implement the Paris Agreement. The grouping has tried hard again to reduce mutual ignorance among the member countries and has tried to increase and strengthen intra BRICS ties because even though all have strong economic ties with China, there are fewer ties among each other. Overcoming intra-BRICS obstacles of various kinds, especially in tourism, was also discussed in Johannesburg.

An important area where the BRICS members have pledged to cooperate is the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Challenges will emerge in the future in all BRICS members in the area of robotics, AI, block chains, nanotechnology, quantum computing and biotechnology, 3D printing, the Internet of Things and driverless vehicles. China has taken the global lead in many of these areas and collaborative research will be beneficial for all the members. Russia too has abundant expertise in military industry, higher education in science and technology and has excellent research institutions.

Turkey hopes to gain from the technology cooperation with the BRICS in the future. It has been trying to get a missile defence system with potential Chinese and Russian suppliers and also a third nuclear plant with Chinese technology. The Turkish economy is going through a rough patch currently because its exports are not doing well due to the instabilities in its neighborhood and contraction in demand for its products globally, especially after the failed coup attempt in July 2016. Its imports, especially from the BRICS members, have been rising and its current account deficit with them is the highest — mainly with China. A big support for Turkey’s membership to the BRICS has come from China. Turkey can hope to increase exports to BRICS members after joining the grouping. It can also access infrastructural development loans from the AIIB and the NDB, the two newly established BRICS banks.


The group has been viewed as not being cohesive because India and China have had geopolitical confrontation along the borders in the recent past but it has now been overtaken by the declaration of mutual interests, strategic cooperation and collaboration in the last two BRICS summits.

On the whole, the dynamism displayed by BRICS members in the economic front cannot be denied. Russia was facing economic hardships in the past due to the steep fall in oil and gas prices, but it is on the path of recovery and growing at around 1.4 percent. The fundamentals of the BRICS are strong and stable, even though they are all facing domestic problems and challenges. They are all unique in being resource rich and have enormous potential for development.

The BRICS economic growth rate in 2016 was at 5 percent, higher than developing countries by 0.9 percent and higher than developed countries by 3.3 percentage points. They account for more than 30 percent of the global economy in overall size and their contribution to global growth reached 60 percent, far surpassing that of G7 economies. While the G7 is 40 years old, the BRICS is only a decade old. It will expand in the future and become stronger and have a voice in global governance and the international financial system. Turkey will add to its becoming more diverse, and due to its strategic location, an important addition.

Why Turkey’s joining BRICS should be welcomed

Why Turkey’s joining BRICS should be welcomed

www.orfonline.org

further to the above news, I would say that Pakistan, as nuclear power, should also be considered for BRICS membership