PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

[Joe Shearer]

Waisay a recently released video, showed fc mortars engaging an afghan taliban post near border very accurately

I mean no spray, all shells landing dead on

I was wondering since that day

Mortars, especially 2"/60mm mortars, may be expected to be very accurate, as they operate over a short range, and adjusting the range is very easy, in case the first shell goes awry. For the rest, we need to ask @Panzerkiel.

 

[Sparten]

Well, while thats true @Joe Shearer, Afghanistan has been test-central for new prototypes since 2021.

 

[Mrc]

Mortars, especially 2"/60mm mortars, may be expected to be very accurate, as they operate over a short range, and adjusting the range is very easy, in case the first shell goes awry. For the rest, we need to ask @Panzerkiel.

It was labelled as 82 and 120 mm rounds, don't know whether your assumption holds true

 

[Oscar]

Fatah 2 and W600L is almost the same thing.
 Looks like Fatah 2 is an evolution of chinese W600L hypersonic short range ballistic, it completely fits Fatah, it has a flat trajectory plus evasive maneuvers, hypersonic speed, whilst instead of 2 missile pr vehicles the chinese have 4 per vehicle, looks like pakistan went for simplicity utilizing fatat 1 tel while keeping the costs low, another thing which sets it apart from w600L is fattah is single stage while W600L is, its kinda of a rocket.
Below videos explains it correctly.

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So it could be that the hypersonic speed is downgraded to supersonic for export purpose while pakistani missiles is hypersonic which explains ISPRs statement quite well, Another notable thing about w600L is its anti ship variant, so it could be that army and navy will be using the same missile with different guidance and maybe it could be that an air launched version of this missile also exists hence PAF claims about possession of hypersonic weapon, Looks like we have dived into the realm of hypersonics.View attachment 75130
@Oscar
@farooqbhai
@JamD
@Windjammer

Base architecture - few changes for local requirements and supply chain - minimal investment - maximum capabilities.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It was labelled as 82 and 120 mm rounds, don't know whether your assumption holds true

120?
Someone lost his temper.

 

[MMM-E]

If this can change 122mm rockets to precision weapon that's a huge thing

Turkiye has already done that.

Turkiye has developed GPS-INS guided Rockets with LASER seeker to hit even moving targets

only Turkiye in NATO


30 km TRLG-122 MLRS
70 km TRLG-230 MLRS

70 km TRLG-230 laser guided MLRS to hit even moving targets

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Also air launched supersonic Missiles with speed of mach 3

80 km IHA-122
150 km IHA-230


Pakistan bought AKINCI UCAVs from Turkiye which can carry 150+ km IHA-230 supersonic Missile to hit Air Defense Systems like AKASH-NG from safe distance

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[falcon34]

Further proof which links Fatah 2 and Ws600L
Here we can see two types of Maneuvers which are S type maneuvers and the third one which is C type maneuvers.
In S type maneuvers the gliders descends on the target vertical

while in C type maneuvers the angle of attack is sloped.

Now Fatah 2's S type maneuver

Note the descend is vertical
Fatah 2's C type maneuver

Note the angle of attack here is sloped.
Consideing fatah 2 has separable Glider it is highly likely in any of these trajectories fatah 2 would perform several C and S type maneuvers.

 

[Afif]

Base architecture - few changes for local requirements and supply chain - minimal investment - maximum capabilities.

It's too specific, still Would like to know if there is any emphasis on anti jamming GNSS for Fattah-2. It was a major concern for GMLRS in Ukraine.

 

[Oscar]

It's too specific, still Would like to know if there is any emphasis on anti jamming GNSS for Fattah-2. It was a major concern for GMLRS in Ukraine.

I have no clue either way - just that from my limited time more than 13 years ago in the sector anything being developed with either dual GPS-GLONASS or GPS/GLONASS/Beidu with inertial backup

 

[Sparten]

It's too specific, still Would like to know if there is any emphasis on anti jamming GNSS for Fattah-2. It was a major concern for GMLRS in Ukraine.

Pretty much all our systems are designed presuming loss of access to external guidance system aides like GNSS. Hence most are INS with backup GNSS for correction.
GMLRS in Ukraine are the other way, GPS is the primary guidance and INS is backup.

 

[Sparten]

Further proof which links Fatah 2 and Ws600LView attachment 75422
Here we can see two types of Maneuvers which are S type maneuvers and the third one which is C type maneuvers.
In S type maneuvers the gliders descends on the target vertical
View attachment 75425
while in C type maneuvers the angle of attack is sloped.
View attachment 75427
Now Fatah 2's S type maneuver
View attachment 75429
Note the descend is vertical
Fatah 2's C type maneuver
View attachment 75430
Note the angle of attack here is sloped.
Consideing fatah 2 has separable Glider it is highly likely in any of these trajectories fatah 2 would perform several C and S type maneuvers.

I dunno. This looks rather thin and reeks of confirmation bias.

 

[Bilal]

I have no clue either way - just that from my limited time more than 13 years ago in the sector anything being developed with either dual GPS-GLONASS or GPS/GLONASS/Beidu with inertial backup

Do we have our own indigenous FOG and/or other INS solutions.

 

[Oscar]

Do we have our own indigenous FOG and/or other INS solutions.

No idea

But why have it for GMLRS?

And also why indigenous?
If you can get it for pennies and cents from China

 

[Bilal]

No idea

But why have it for GMLRS?

And also why indigenous?
If you can get it for pennies and cents from China

True, but capability in general. Indians have been flaunting FOG capability for almost a decade if not more.

 

[Oscar]

True, but capability in general. Indians have been flaunting FOG capability for almost a decade if not more.

It’s not for a lack of technical expertise or access for Pakistan so it’s difficult to provide any comparison one way or the other.