Green light for Eurofighter from Germany for the Turkish Air Force

[RedBeard]

Turkey a NATO member making Kaan is begging EU for Eurofighter ?

how does this make any sense

How is that begging when you pay for it with your hard earned money?

So lets say if i’m buying a Porsche 911 Carrera that means i’m begging Germany for a car?? What a foolish logic lol.

 

[LeGenD]

This version of Eurofighter is a serious threat to any export model F-35 and maybe even the US version as well.

It will have edge in radar and electronics, higher top speed/ceiling and ability to supercruise at Mach 1.5 with its twin EJ-2000 engines. RCS of 0.1m^2 with semi-recessed air to air load will also mean that it won't be easy to detect from long range.

Eurofighter Typhoon is "catching up" with modernization levels of American 4th generation fighters at best. But watch out for F-15EX because it has no peer in the 4++ gen space.

It is a multi-function array which is not just a more complicated way of saying ‘radar’ - it means it carries out a wide range of functions beyond just radar capabilities. This flexibility allows it to not only detect various signals across the spectrum but also engage in electronic attack activities. This multifunction aspect is a huge benefit.
Link

Wow - so impressive. Oh wait. The AN/APG-81 radar system had similar capability way earlier.

The AN/APG-81 epitomizes the F-35's multirole mission requirement showcasing the robust electronic warfare (EW) capabilities and can operate as an EW aperture utilizing the AESA's multifunction array (MFA). Fully adept at electronic protection (EP), electronic attack (EA) and electronic support measures (ESM) it enables the F-35 the unparalleled capability to suppress and destroy the most advanced enemy air defenses. The Department of Defense recognized the EW capabilities of the AN/APG-81 in 2010 awarding the team the David Packard Excellence in Acquisition Award* for the rapid development and successful demonstration of a quantum leap in EP performance against enemy jammers by a fighter radar.
Link

You see? WE cannot evaluate jet fighter performance based on product-focused marketing statements. Eurofighter Typhoon is said to check all the boxes of being a modern jet fighter but the manufacturer has no reason to explain to you how F-35 compare and is better.

The F-35 has a much smaller uniform rcs because its airframe can absorb and deflect radar waves to make it much harder to detect in the BVR regime, 360 degree situational awareness with unmatched level of sensor fusion between all onboard sensor systems, and top-of-the-line EW capability.



vs



Sometimes a company will call a spade a spade when comparing systems across the board. F-35 uses AN/ASQ-239 EW system and Eurofighter Typhoon uses Pratorian EW system. You can see in the comparison above that the AN/ASQ-239 EW system is superior and comprehensive in comparison to the Pratorian EW system. The AN/ASQ-239 EW system is completely fused with the AN/APG-81 radar system for EW functions inside F-35 due to IAC containing CIPs.

Eurofighter Typhoon is also said to have sensor fusion but it will be on a much lower level in comparison to F-35 because the architecture is different unless Leonardo has come up with a new architecture for Eurofighter Typhoon that is based on F-35 or even better but no indication of this shift because it will be very expensive. This is something that the company will not tell you on the product website.

F-35 has 20-1 kill ratio even in most stressful scenarios of RED FLAG events where all manner of well-equipped jet fighters are used to confront each other for training, learning, and developing fighter doctrines. F-35 will be further uplifted to Block 4 standard - a massive leap from the current Block 3 standard - in the coming years.

Eurofighter Typhoon is very good jet fighter in its own right but comparisons with F-35 are premature.

 

[MMM-E]

F-35 uses AN/ASQ-239 EW system and Eurofighter Typhoon uses Pratorian EW system. You can see in the comparison above that the AN/ASQ-239 EW system is superior and comprehensive in comparison to the Pratorian EW system. The AN/ASQ-239 EW system is completely fused with the AN/APG-81 radar system for EW functions inside F-35 due to IAC containing CIPs.

AN/ASQ-239 EW system is a British technology from BAE Systems for the F-35

The new Eurofighter Tranche 5 variant using superior ERCS MK-II AESA Radar provide cutting edge electronic warfare capabilities

F-35 has only low RCS advantage for BVR combat ... nothing else

Eurofighter can eat alive bulky F-35 in dog fight


Turkiye wants to buy Eurofighter against RAFALE and SU-35 in the region

Turkiye create its own 6th gen war concept with KAAN and ANKA-4 also KIZILELMA manned-unmannned stealth Fighter Jets against the F-35

 

[Oscar]

AN/ASQ-239 EW system is a British technology from BAE Systems for the F-35

The new Eurofighter Tranche 5 variant using superior ERCS MK-II AESA Radar provide cutting edge electronic warfare capabilities

F-35 has only low RCS advantage for BVR combat ... nothing else

Eurofighter can eat alive bulky F-35 in dog fight


Turkiye wants to buy Eurofighter against RAFALE and SU-35 in the region

Turkiye create its own 6th gen war concept with KAAN and ANKA-4 also KIZILELMA manned-unmannned stealth Fighter Jets against the F-35

prove the bold

 

[LeGenD]

AN/ASQ-239 EW system is a British technology from BAE Systems for the F-35

The new Eurofighter Tranche 5 variant using superior ERCS MK-II AESA Radar provide cutting edge electronic warfare capabilities

F-35 has only low RCS advantage for BVR combat ... nothing else

Eurofighter can eat alive bulky F-35 in dog fight


Turkiye wants to buy Eurofighter against RAFALE and SU-35 in the region

Turkiye create its own 6th gen war concept with KAAN and ANKA-4 also KIZILELMA manned-unmannned stealth Fighter Jets against the F-35

Eurofighter Tranche 5 is still not equipped with F-35 level technology on the whole and not equipped to handle F-35 in aerial clashes. ERCS MK-II radar system boast capabilities that are already found in AN/APG-81 and the radar system by itself is not going to be much help against a threat like F-35. F-35 has vastly superior EW capability and level of sensor fusion.

Eat alive F-35 in a dog fight? There won't be intentional dog fights in real combat because F-35 has 360 degree situational awareness and it will have first look and first shot advantage. Let's not confuse intentional dogfights for training purposes with what might happen in real combat. Even if in hypothetical terms.

Even if an F-35 finds itself in a dog fight situation - there are always more in the air and there is a fairly good chance of another F-35 killing the opposing the jet fighter from afar. Maybe have a look at F-35 network centric capability.

The F-35 is built to handle emerging threats and this is why it is so costly as a program. You can have imaginary victories in mind though.

 

[MMM-E]

Even if an F-35 finds itself in a dog fight situation - there are always more in the air and there is a fairly good chance of another F-35 killing the opposing the jet fighter from afar. Maybe have a look at F-35 network centric capability.

Eurofighter alone can not match with the F-35 in BVR combat

but when everything goes as planned
Turkish Air Force will have KAAN , ANKA-4 , KIZILELMA , F-16V and Eurofighter together with HAVASOJ stand off jammer Aircraft , REDET-II Radar EW System , E-7T AEWC and 150-250 km SIPER Air Defense Systems + 700 km ALP-300G early warning AESA Radars + ALP-400G VHF - UHF and Passive Radar for network centric warfare and cooperative engagement capabilities

Greece is not USA
We will see what about Hellenic Air Force with 20-40 F-35 when they face with manned - unmanned robotic team vastly superior in numbers over the Aegean


You can have imaginary victories in mind though against Countries like S.Arabia , Egypt which produce nothing but just buying Eurofighter or RAFALE

 

[UKBengali]

prove the bold

That is claim of UK that built 25% of F-35.

UK also has non-degraded version of F-35.

I would believe them.

 

[UKBengali]

Eurofighter Tranche 5 is still not equipped with F-35 level technology on the whole and not equipped to handle F-35 in aerial clashes. ERCS MK-II radar system boast capabilities that are already found in AN/APG-81 and the radar system by itself is not going to be much help against a threat like F-35. F-35 has vastly superior EW capability and level of sensor fusion.

Eat alive F-35 in a dog fight? There won't be intentional dog fights in real combat because F-35 has 360 degree situational awareness and it will have first look and first shot advantage. Let's not confuse intentional dogfights for training purposes with what might happen in real combat. Even if in hypothetical terms.

Even if an F-35 finds itself in a dog fight situation - there are always more in the air and there is a fairly good chance of another F-35 killing the opposing the jet fighter from afar. Maybe have a look at F-35 network centric capability.

The F-35 is built to handle emerging threats and this is why it is so costly as a program. You can have imaginary victories in mind though.

BAe/ Leonardo claims superior radar and electronics to current F-35 version.

It will have full sensor fusion with 2020s technology and not 2010 like the F-35.

In this case we can take the BAe/Leonardo “trust me bro” statement as they have the capability to make it happen. UK has built 2 AESA fighter radars already for Typhoon and Gripen E.

 

[MMM-E]

Eurofighter Tranche 5 is still not equipped with F-35 level technology on the whole and not equipped to handle F-35 in aerial clashes. ERCS MK-II radar system boast capabilities that are already found in AN/APG-81 and the radar system by itself is not going to be much help against a threat like F-35. F-35 has vastly superior EW capability and level of sensor fusion.

F-35's main advantage is not its radar or EW System ,, but stealth technology


Eurofighter and F-35 have same British EW technologies
ERCS MK-II AESA Radar is good as AN/APG-81 Radar
PIRATE IRST
Datalink
new modern cockpit like 5th gen
STRIKER II Helmet
METEOR air to air missile is a lethal weapon

Eurofighter Tranche 5 easly can match with the F-35 if both Aircraft would have similar RCS

but as I said stealth F-35 has low RCS advantage in BVR combat

 

[Oscar]

That is claim of BAe that built 25% of F-35.

UK also has non-degraded version of F-35.

I would believe them.

BaE did not build the APG-81 and they are not comparable as radars.

The AN/APG-81 offers superior multirole functionality with air-to-air, air-to-ground, and electronic warfare capabilities, integrated deeply into the F-35’s stealth and sensor fusion systems. It is optimized for long-range detection, ground targeting, and low probability of intercept, making it ideal for first-look, first-shot engagements in networked, stealth-driven combat environments. It is also capable of acting as Jammer, communications hub and so on.

The ECRS, particularly in its Mk3 variant, focuses more on air superiority and modular upgrades for multirole combat. While it improves the Typhoon’s ground attack and electronic warfare capabilities, it’s tailored for high-performance air-to-air engagements with a flexible, future-proof design.

While the F-35’s radar is a part of a larger, highly integrated system for complex operations, the Eurofighter’s radar is focused on strong air dominance with evolving multirole functionality.

The F-35 with VLO will always have first shot capability

 

[Oscar]

BAe/ Leonardo claims superior radar and electronics to current F-35 version.

It will have full sensor fusion with 2020s technology and not 2010 like the F-35.

In this case we can take the BAe/Leonardo “trust me bro” statement as they have the capability to make it happen. UK has built 2 AESA fighter radars already for Typhoon and Gripen E.

But we don’t know Raytheon’s rebuttal yet and the F-35 is constantly evolving.

 

[UKBengali]

BaE did not build the APG-81 and they are not comparable as radars.

The AN/APG-81 offers superior multirole functionality with air-to-air, air-to-ground, and electronic warfare capabilities, integrated deeply into the F-35’s stealth and sensor fusion systems. It is optimized for long-range detection, ground targeting, and low probability of intercept, making it ideal for first-look, first-shot engagements in networked, stealth-driven combat environments. It is also capable of acting as Jammer, communications hub and so on.

The ECRS, particularly in its Mk3 variant, focuses more on air superiority and modular upgrades for multirole combat. While it improves the Typhoon’s ground attack and electronic warfare capabilities, it’s tailored for high-performance air-to-air engagements with a flexible, future-proof design.

While the F-35’s radar is a part of a larger, highly integrated system for complex operations, the Eurofighter’s radar is focused on strong air dominance with evolving multirole functionality.

The F-35 with VLO will always have first shot capability

It does not matter who built the F-35 radar as the UK has access to it and so was able to see what it needed to improve upon.

Why should the Typhoon radar bother with as many air to ground modes as F-35 when it is optimised for air supremacy?

Bae/Leonardo that are world leaders in electronic warfare/radar claim this beats current F-35 radar and that is credible.

 

[UKBengali]

But we don’t know Raytheon’s rebuttal yet and the F-35 is constantly evolving.

They only claim current version of F-35 and not future upgrades.

 

[Oscar]

It does not matter who built the F-35 radar as the UK has access to it and so was able to see what it needed to improve upon.

Why should the Typhoon radar bother with as many air to ground modes as F-35 when it is optimised for air supremacy?

Bae/Leonardo that are world leaders in electronic warfare/radar and claim this beats current F-35 radar and that is credible.

Now you’re shifting goalposts -
The Uk may have access to it and using it as benchmark for certain modes but how does it matter when the Radar being superior or not for air superiority applies to an apples to apples comparison of a stealth aircraft and a non-stealth one?

If anything, it proves ECRS is a one trick pony for the EF’s air superiority focus(against non VLO platforms) but going up against F-35s with their plethroa of sensors including the still very potent APG-81 they will struggle.

BAE was there during the F-35 R&D and initial deployment - they now serve as contractors for updates to RAF’s F-35 with NDAs between them and LM and Raytheon.

the current standard of the AN/APG-81 on more recent F-35s, particularly those operating under Block 4 software (which is being rolled out through the early 2020s), includes significant upgrades. Block 4 introduces expanded electronic warfare capabilities, improved radar range and performance, and enhanced sensor fusion. The full Block 4 capabilities would include greater data processing power, better networked target sharing, and improvements in radar jamming and countermeasure functionalities, making the APG-81 even more capable than earlier versions.

By the time Tranche 5 Eurofighters enter operational service, possibly in the late 2020s, the F-35’s radar would likely be operating under Block 4 or beyond, with further refinements. This means that while BAE Systems might have had access to earlier versions of the APG-81, the real-world comparison between the ECRS Mk3 and the APG-81 that Tranche 5 Eurofighters could face would be against a more advanced, evolved radar than what they initially saw.

 

[UKBengali]

Now you’re shifting goalposts -
The Uk may have access to it and using it as benchmark for certain modes but how does it matter when the Radar being superior or not for air superiority applies to an apples to apples comparison of a stealth aircraft and a non-stealth one?

If anything, it proves ECRS is a one trick pony for the EF’s air superiority focus(against non VLO platforms) but going up against F-35s with their plethroa of sensors including the still very potent APG-81 they will struggle.

One more thing - the radar and electronics in Greek F-35s are worse than in the UK version.

Only the US/UK and maybe the entity has the “full” version of the plane.

I never said this version of Typhoon could beat Greek and maybe US F-35 but only that it could be a credible threat to it. Two different claims.