TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[FuturePAF]

India will not dare equip the Armenians with the SU-30. The Russians won’t allow it and there are other geo-political complications emanating from such purchase.

The Indians might buy off the Russians to get the deal done. The aircraft are the loss leader. India hopes to sell the munitions connected to the aircraft. Azerbaijan getting the KAAN can help deal with as well as a potential Rafale sale to Armenia, but the JF-17 should be made to be capable enough to hold its own against these temple trial threats. For the sake of Azerbaijan and Pakistan.

 

[hyperman]

A follow up, considering India will most likely be equipping the Armenians with Su-30MKI, Pakistan should develop the JF-17 Block 3 with all the necessary features to have the best chances of defeating that adversary. Pakistan, Chinese, and Turkish systems to make it tailor made to out do the flanker.

This will also give good feedback as to how the TFX should develop to meet Pakistan’s needs. There is also the possibility Armenia will acquire the Rafale, and if that materialized the JF-17 should have a pathway to deal with that threat as well. Better missiles, better EW, and plan for a better engine, a better radar, an internal IRST based on the one from the KAAN. Etc.

There is no possibility for India to equip the Armenians with Su-30MKI, people seem to not know that India does not manufacture the AL-31 engines in India, The Russians make the engine and they ship it to India after which the plane is assembled in knockdown kits, for spare engines they also have to get those from Russia.

The only way to get Armenia Su-30MKIs would be to send them their own current planes they are flying and deplete their own number of fighters, and for what exactly? what happens if those places need an engine replacement? will the indians cannabalize their own planes to give engines? will they give their spares?

India currently is going through a squadron shortage and attrition with older aircraft becoming an issue and them not being able to retire older planes b/c they can't induct planes fast enough. If anything India doesn't just want to maintain current squadron numbers, it wants to increase them b/c of China.

So put simply this is not realistic.

The news story that floated about the Su-30s was Armenia's own Su-30s being upgraded by India with Indian systems and munitions. Not more fighters bought from India. If Armenia will buy, they will be buying French, or the Gripen by the process of elimination. As Azerbaijan just bought Pak/Sino Jf-17s, Russian relations are complicated. Brits are friendly with Azerbaijan so likely won't agree to Eurofighter sale. Maybe the US could sell F-16s, but very unlikely as its not really in US interests to sacrifice Azerbaijan and their access to central Asia over something like Armenia, which is risky and holds little tangible benefits of geography, as its dependent on Georgia(where a pro russian party recently won election and where US Georgia relations are strained) for access.

 

[FuturePAF]

There is no possibility for India to equip the Armenians with Su-30MKI, people seem to not know that India does not manufacture the AL-31 engines in India, The Russians make the engine and they ship it to India after which the plane is assembled in knockdown kits, for spare engines they also have to get those from Russia.

The only way to get Armenia Su-30MKIs would be to send them their own current planes they are flying and deplete their own number of fighters, and for what exactly? what happens if those places need an engine replacement? will the indians cannabalize their own planes to give engines? will they give their spares?

India currently is going through a squadron shortage and attrition with older aircraft becoming an issue and them not being able to retire older planes b/c they can't induct planes fast enough. If anything India doesn't just want to maintain current squadron numbers, it wants to increase them b/c of China.

So put simply this is not realistic.

The news story that floated about the Su-30s was Armenia's own Su-30s being upgraded by India with Indian systems and munitions. Not more fighters bought from India. If Armenia will buy, they will be buying French, or the Gripen by the process of elimination. As Azerbaijan just bought Pak/Sino Jf-17s, Russian relations are complicated. Brits are friendly with Azerbaijan so likely won't agree to Eurofighter sale. Maybe the US could sell F-16s, but very unlikely as its not really in US interests to sacrifice Azerbaijan and their access to central Asia over something like Armenia, which is risky and holds little tangible benefits of geography, as its dependent on Georgia(where a pro russian party recently won election and where US Georgia relations are strained) for access.

Thanks for the clarification. The news circulating did seem odd.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Armenia is seeking assistance from Indian HAL for upgrading their Su-30 with Indian Systems and purchases of weapon packages (Like Astra) for their SU30. It's not about new purchases.

Anyway it's off-topic so it's better not to discuss this any further.

 

[Qaraca]

There is no possibility for India to equip the Armenians with Su-30MKI, people seem to not know that India does not manufacture the AL-31 engines in India, The Russians make the engine and they ship it to India after which the plane is assembled in knockdown kits, for spare engines they also have to get those from Russia.

The only way to get Armenia Su-30MKIs would be to send them their own current planes they are flying and deplete their own number of fighters, and for what exactly? what happens if those places need an engine replacement? will the indians cannabalize their own planes to give engines? will they give their spares?

India currently is going through a squadron shortage and attrition with older aircraft becoming an issue and them not being able to retire older planes b/c they can't induct planes fast enough. If anything India doesn't just want to maintain current squadron numbers, it wants to increase them b/c of China.

So put simply this is not realistic.

The news story that floated about the Su-30s was Armenia's own Su-30s being upgraded by India with Indian systems and munitions. Not more fighters bought from India. If Armenia will buy, they will be buying French, or the Gripen by the process of elimination. As Azerbaijan just bought Pak/Sino Jf-17s, Russian relations are complicated. Brits are friendly with Azerbaijan so likely won't agree to Eurofighter sale. Maybe the US could sell F-16s, but very unlikely as its not really in US interests to sacrifice Azerbaijan and their access to central Asia over something like Armenia, which is risky and holds little tangible benefits of geography, as its dependent on Georgia(where a pro russian party recently won election and where US Georgia relations are strained) for access.

Maybe it’s just me, but take what those Indian websites write with a huge grain of salt. There is almost nothing that India supposedly isn’t supplying to Armenia according them. Su-30, Pralay, Brahmos, even MRSAM that is Israeli tech.

 

[Qaraca]

View attachment 76473

Armenia is seeking assistance from Indian HAL for upgrading their Su-30 with Indian Systems and purchases of weapon packages (Like Astra) for their SU30. It's not about new purchases.

Anyway it's off-topic so it's better not to discuss this any further.

Armenia never ordered more than the 4 they recieved in 2019. The plan was to eventually raise the number to 12, but that never materalised.

 

[hyperman]

Maybe it’s just me, but take what those Indian websites write with a huge grain of salt. There is almost nothing that India supposedly isn’t supplying to Armenia according them. Su-30, Pralay, Brahmos, even MRSAM that is Israeli tech.

I think its possible for the Pralay and the Akash SAM(older one without Israeli tech) and the ATAGS artillary. But outside of that, the other things need 3rd party Approval, as they are the license holders as well as the providers of subcomponents.

Either way, its not significant b/c unless India is selling for discount of giving for free, Armenia likely can't buy them in numbers where they overwhelm Azerbaijan's buying capacity.

 

[MMM-E]

Radar cross-section estimates of 5th generation Fighter Jets and their sizes against living beings from smallest to largest:


Tarantula (Spider) ▸ -40 dBsm
F-22 Raptor ▸ -40dBsm
F-35 Lightning II ▸ -23 dBsm
KAAN ▸ -25 dBsm ... -5 dBsm target
Eagle (Bird) ▸ -20 dBsm ... -10 dBsm
J-20 Mighty Dragon ▸ -20 dBsm ... -5 dBsm
SU-57 Felon ▸ -10 dBsm ... 0 dBsm
Human ▸ -5dBsm ... + 5dBsm



-- RAM ( Radar Absorber Material )
KAAN with advanced magnetic coating and RAM panel layer it could RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]


-- Air inlet Ducts : KAAN has S routing duct to hide Engine comprassor blades from direct enemy radar signals .. also RAM coating on inner surface of duct


--Internal weapon bay for stealth flight capability


RCS values were expressed by the Turkish Air Force representative in the TF-X briefing given at the Press Day

Official source

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[Merzifonlu]

I think these predictions are complete bulls*ht. It is impossible for the F22, produced with 90s technology, to have a radar signature as long as a tarantula.

 

[MMM-E]

I think these predictions are complete bulls*ht. It is impossible for the F22, produced with 90s technology, to have a radar signature as long as a tarantula.

The USA is minimum 30 years ahead of the World


In 2009, Lockheed Martin released information indicating that the F-22 has an RCS of -40 dBsm ( 0,0001 m2 ) from certain angle


F-22 has excellent design and production quality, we cannot see this in the Russian SU-57 with RCS of 0,1 m2

KAAN also has better design and production quality than Russian SU-57


There are many measures to reduce radar cross section
The F-22 has even fixed geometry serpentine inlets that block the line of sight of the engine surfaces from any external view

We can't see this in other 5th gen Fighter Jets



Still Russia and China can not develop a Fighter Jet which is similar to the F-22

 

[zhanlong]

The Türkiye aircraft with American engines began its second flight.

Turkish TF-X "Kaan" fighter plane completes 2nd flight

Another milestone for Turkey that will allow the country to strengthen its Air Force and limit foreign dependence: this is how the Turkish press interprets the success of the 2nd flight of the fifth generation multi-role fighter "Kaan" aircraft, developed by the national industry Turkish...

www.avionews.it

 

[Bentley777]

Kaan next flight when?

 

[xbat]

Hurjet 2nd Prototype first flight , notice wingtip launcher

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[MMM-E]

Armed version of HÜRJET with added air to air missile pylons

The nose and air intake design appear to have been changed.

 

[Flotilla]

The USA is minimum 30 years ahead of the World


In 2009, Lockheed Martin released information indicating that the F-22 has an RCS of -40 dBsm ( 0,0001 m2 ) from certain angle


F-22 has excellent design and production quality, we cannot see this in the Russian SU-57 with RCS of 0,1 m2

Still Russia and China can not develop a Fighter Jet which is similar to the F-22
View attachment 79143

Said in those terms, seems that even Us cannot design a F22 anymore (FAL closed 13 years ago). But who knows... maybe if Pentagon asks Musk...