JF-17 PFX program

[Bilal]

So maybe ignore that? Or alternatively we can discuss that aspect and use it dismiss the actual PFX update directly from PAF?

Agreed but maybe language barrier would make one think it’s being shown as a model for PFX. We can understand what was actually shown an said.

 

[Bentley777]

Not again thsi nonsense with these fan-made models in the background! This story has been debunked already so often..

However this is new and even if I still rate it more a fancy-looking placeholder it looks for the first time like a more radical change from a standard JF-17+

posted by @Malik

View attachment 82647View attachment 82646View attachment 82645

It was not the model paf incharge referred to it just a video thumb nail or dummy present there what was even surprising that paf pfx project officer told that it will have new engines sensors aesa radar EW Suite etc which indicates it might be dual engine fighter which also cancels the perspective that it will be heavy jf 17 like what happened with gripen it looks like cheap kf 21 sort of thing but its long project and if it gets successful only will be in 2040s its first squadron will be operational.

 

[Bentley777]

I

The point of PFX is to build in Pakistan , home grown talent to design and build jets in Pakistan. PFX is focused on more home grown systems in the platform.

If you carry on down this path, then one day, Pakistan can build Kaan II in Pakistan ? These things are progressive, iterative and take time. Look at how India has been building jets with full TOT and how even with all that, how hard it was for them to do the Tejas programme?? Time, money, blood and sweat for the next 20dd years and then Pakistan could design a jet in Pakistan…

Pakistan will make some mistakes for sure, but you have to stick to the goal and you will get there.

I am up for it infact if it fails doest not matter i will still be happy but i want this project not to get politicize.

 

[Bentley777]

Yes, but the news outlet’s smart ass video editor put a fanboy made model in the thumbnail.

Because he gathered pics from Google and if you search pfx this will show up it has nothing to do paf.

 

[Awwad]

It was not the model paf incharge referred to it just a video thumb nail or dummy present there what was even surprising that paf pfx project officer told that it will have new engines sensors aesa radar EW Suite etc which indicates it might be dual engine fighter which also cancels the perspective that it will be heavy jf 17 like what happened with gripen it looks like cheap kf 21 sort of thing but its long project and if it gets successful only will be in 2040s its first squadron will be operational.

I think nowhere he said that it will have new engine(s). However, he did talked about enhanced range, that could mean improved engine version. He talked about Pakistan own's control on avionics, EW systems and other components. That's exactly what many were suspecting.

Also, Important point is he never mentioned dual engines. More than likely its JF-17 with improved engine and home grown avionics and technologies. That's exactly what I get from air commodore talk.

I think this report clarifies now what JF-17 PFX is. Don't have to look at graphics at all, We know they mix up everything up, sometimes they are showing JF-17 with some enhanced design and sometimes they are showing dual engine stealth aircraft. It is obvious that Pakistan is not making a dual engine 5th gen fighter otherwise why going for J-31/35. Its straight forward that its a single engine 4.5+ aircraft. Slight bit of design enhancements on JF-17, improved engine and home grown avionics. That's all.

Let's recap what Air commodore exactly said:

- 4.5+ Generation
- Difficult to detect ( Could be radar absorbing coating or reduced RCS but not necessarily, It could be only reduced infrared, electromagnetic signatures as he specifically referred to radar / sensors to detect enemy without transmitting anything)
- Pakistan's own control / production on radars / avionics (Home grown Radars / Avionics)
- Home grown EW and other systems
- First flight in 5 to 6 years.

This paints me a picture of JF-17 localized version.

IMO, a good step in right direction. Critical step for indigenization. Can't go for unrealistic goals right away. Another important part is i think PAF is also considering MLU for a massive Jf-17 fleet of PAF. This program looks like is designed to facilitate that as well with the installation of localized radars / EW systems of PFX to be used in rest of JF-17 feet (block 1 & 2s) after a decade or so. It will make no sense if PAF invests separately and develop different radars / EWs for MLU of massive PAF JF-17 fleet.

 

[Bentley777]

I think nowhere he said that it will have new engine(s). However, he did talked about enhanced range, that could mean improved engine version. He talked about Pakistan own's control on avionics, EW systems and other components. That's exactly what many were suspecting.

Also, Important point is he never mentioned dual engines. More than likely its JF-17 with improved engine and home grown avionics and technologies. That's exactly what I get from air commodore talk.

I think this report clarifies now what JF-17 PFX is. Don't have to look at graphics at all, We know they mix up everything up, sometimes they are showing JF-17 with some enhanced design and sometimes they are showing dual engine stealth aircraft. It is obvious that Pakistan is not making a dual engine 5th gen fighter otherwise why going for J-31/35. Its straight forward that its a single engine 4.5+ aircraft. Slight bit of design enhancements on JF-17, improved engine and home grown avionics. That's all.

Let's recap what Air commodore exactly said:

- 4.5+ Generation
- Difficult to detect ( Could be radar absorbing coating or reduced RCS but not necessarily, It could be only reduced infrared, electromagnetic signatures as he specifically referred to radar / sensors to detect enemy without transmitting anything)
- Pakistan's own control / production on radars / avionics (Home grown Radars / Avionics)
- Home grown EW and other systems
- First flight in 5 to 6 years.

This paints me a picture of JF-17 localized version.

IMO, a good step in right direction. Critical step for indigenization. Can't go for unrealistic goals right away. Another important part is i think PAF is also considering MLU for a massive Jf-17 fleet of PAF. This program looks like is designed to facilitate that as well with the installation of localized radars / EW systems of PFX to be used in rest of JF-17 feet (block 1 & 2s) after a decade or so. It will make no sense if PAF invests separately and develop different radars / EWs for MLU of massive PAF JF-17 fleet.

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no it is not a more heavy medium category jf 17 will not take a decade for development. In this video another paf officer said clearly "higher powered engines"

 

[Toxic]

If we can build everything except the engine domesticly It would be massive.

 

[Awwad]

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no it is not a more heavy medium category jf 17 will not take a decade for development. In this video another paf officer said clearly "higher powered engines"

Yep that's weird. He did said, I really think he'd meant engine not engines. Because the screens they are showing are basically saying loud and clear that its an upgrade of JF-17:



Plus, PAF was already calling this aircraft as "JF-17 PFX" in presentations earlier this year. I can't imagine from how on earth PAF can gather funds to build a completely new aircraft from scratch and that too a 5th gen fighter. Makes zero sense. When PAF already is procuring JF-17 block 3s, J-10Cs and is planning for J-31/35. To me, PFX clearly looks a JF-17 localized version.

 

[Bentley777]

Yep that's weird. He did said, I really think he'd meant engine not engines. Because the screens they are showing are basically saying loud and clear that its an upgrade of JF-17:

View attachment 82709

Plus, PAF was already calling this aircraft as "JF-17 PFX" in presentations earlier this year. I can't imagine from how on earth PAF can gather funds to build a completely new aircraft from scratch and that too a 5th gen fighter. Makes zero sense. When PAF already is procuring JF-17 block 3s, J-10Cs and is planning for J-31/35. To me, PFX clearly looks a JF-17 localized version.

In both the cases its a good news paf always makes us happy inshallah they will be successful .

 

[Bentley777]

If we can build everything except the engine domesticly It would be massive.

Yes it will be huge it can make us self sufficient to great extent.

 

[TAC]

I think nowhere he said that it will have new engine(s). However, he did talked about enhanced range, that could mean improved engine version. He talked about Pakistan own's control on avionics, EW systems and other components. That's exactly what many were suspecting.

Also, Important point is he never mentioned dual engines. More than likely its JF-17 with improved engine and home grown avionics and technologies. That's exactly what I get from air commodore talk.

I think this report clarifies now what JF-17 PFX is. Don't have to look at graphics at all, We know they mix up everything up, sometimes they are showing JF-17 with some enhanced design and sometimes they are showing dual engine stealth aircraft. It is obvious that Pakistan is not making a dual engine 5th gen fighter otherwise why going for J-31/35. Its straight forward that its a single engine 4.5+ aircraft. Slight bit of design enhancements on JF-17, improved engine and home grown avionics. That's all.

Let's recap what Air commodore exactly said:

- 4.5+ Generation
- Difficult to detect ( Could be radar absorbing coating or reduced RCS but not necessarily, It could be only reduced infrared, electromagnetic signatures as he specifically referred to radar / sensors to detect enemy without transmitting anything)
- Pakistan's own control / production on radars / avionics (Home grown Radars / Avionics)
- Home grown EW and other systems
- First flight in 5 to 6 years.

This paints me a picture of JF-17 localized version.

IMO, a good step in right direction. Critical step for indigenization. Can't go for unrealistic goals right away. Another important part is i think PAF is also considering MLU for a massive Jf-17 fleet of PAF. This program looks like is designed to facilitate that as well with the installation of localized radars / EW systems of PFX to be used in rest of JF-17 feet (block 1 & 2s) after a decade or so. It will make no sense if PAF invests separately and develop different radars / EWs for MLU of massive PAF JF-17 fleet.

Thanks for translating the main points. I think some members maybe are going off visuals only because they don’t understand the language of the PAF official and jumping to wrong conclusions as a result.

 

[Bentley777]

For a hypothetical situation can it be possible that paf took all the working of kaan from TAI and now they are trying to make their own FGFA derived from kaan because after assessing for example if turkish engine development takes time and as well usa influence like in a case of Atak helis blocks delivery of kaan to paf. So paf came with idea of this FGFA derived from kaan with Chinese engines and some home grown subsystems as well as Chinese turkish for examples .

 

[JamD]

I think the closest program to PFX is the Turkish Ozgur program. Just to temper expectations keep in mind that:
1. Ozgur was limited compared to some of the things being said for PFX - Ozgur is still an F-16 but insides are Turkish. PFX is being claimed to have other changes to the JF-17 but that may be tone downed when reality sets in.
2. Turkish Aerospace is miles ahead of PAC in terms of capacity: TA has been license producing parts of the F-16 including assembling the engine, it has been making parts for A400, airbus airliners, helicopters, Hurkus, Hurjet, Kaan - TA exported 5.5 billion dollars worth of equipment in 2023. PAC MAYBE gets 1-2 billion for each JF-17 contract that they do maybe once every 5 years. PAC has maybe 1k employees, TA has 15k I think.
3. Turkey is in a different class when it comes to the ability to access foreign suppliers, being part of NATO and generally not under restrictions like Pakistan.

Basically, TA is in a different league than us so expect us to stumble a lot.

 

[JamD]

For a hypothetical situation can it be possible that paf took all the working of kaan from TAI and now they are trying to make their own FGFA derived from kaan because after assessing for example if turkish engine development takes time and as well usa influence like in a case of Atak helis blocks delivery of kaan to paf. So paf came with idea of this FGFA derived from kaan with Chinese engines and some home grown subsystems as well as Chinese turkish for examples .

Uh no please read my post above. PAC is minuscule compared to TA and had no input on Kaan. At best, PAF can be a customer for Kaan but PAC has no capability to produce much for Kaan - except some of the aerostructures that aren't titanium or composites.

 

[RAMPAGE]

With respect this video isn’t fanboy made, it’s from the current IDEAS exhibition in Karachi, a quite respectable news outlet and interview is with a serving PAF official. Agreed that it appears to be a far more radical design change than previously expected. Emphasis seems to be on indigenous.
Whether it succeeds or is forever a fancy place holder, time will tell, but the intention and aims / objectives are clearly there.

Oh, rubbish. PAF is proving itself worse than a fanbody. They're bullshitting, and they're so bad at it that they're not even consistent with the design they're advertising at IDEAS. The following two PFX designs in their official advertisement are radically different.