Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[tower9]

When I visited Israel in 2005, it looked like downtown Los Angeles. a veritable melting pot of ethnicities. However, the people who were arguing about Maxwell's equations in the neighboring cubicles were all Russian speaking Israelis.

Yup. This is also my impression of Israeli society. It’s a very diverse and interesting society actually and I would be inclined to be more friendly about it if it weren’t for the fact that they are conducting a heinous genocide.

 

[tower9]

Sinwar did nothing wrong. He resisted!
His name is etched into history forever! Along with a tyrant, thief, imposter and imitator Miliekowsky a true villain.

Sinwar made a last ditch stand against occupation and became an immortal. I know I saw history till his final act!

Chin up Gaza!

Sinwar was a hero and he died a hero’s death. No doubt about that.

With that said, armed struggle will be fruitless for the Palestinians because of the great imbalance of power. Their only hope is non violent action and although there were a couple Palestinian activists who advocated for this, it has not really caught on. Part of it is also because the Palestinians have been largely segregated, non violent protest has its limitations as far as effectiveness.

 

[Snake]

What do you think would happen If say KSA, Egypt, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc. gathered their armies against Israel and attacked at the same time? Before this would even occur the USA/Israel would have nuked/bombed the shit out of all those countries.

Not necessarily true. The ideal approach would be to have a nuclear deterrent with ICBMs. The US fears and I mean truly fears a foreign power being able to reach the homeland.

If nuclear ICBMs could be deployed in Morocco you would see American and European presidents sweating bullets like they did with Cuban missile crisis. It would make America forget how important Israel and the Jews are to them.

Sadly this will remain fantasy because Morocco has relatively strong relationship with USA and Israel.

 

[Meengla]

China has an even less reason to get militarily involved in this region. China is not culturally related to any of the groups here and it is a den of snakes, let's be serious about that. Look at how Iran has been treated even when they sacrificed tremendously for the Palestinian cause? They were stabbed in the back by the Arabs and Turks and even the Palestinians spit at their name. So you expect China to sacrifice its decades of economic growth and technological development to help Gaza, and then end up being backstabbed by the same people they are helping? Look at the number of Pro Palestinian Arabs here who, not only are not grateful to Iran, but make up fairytales BLAMING Gaza's situation on the Iranians! Let's be real here.

For the record, I never put much faith in China's help and I don't blame the Chinese at all. Some here had been constantly saying the rising China and the new World Order of the Global South and my response was at least not in the short term--and time matters for Palestine. Similarly, I didn't put much weight in the ICJ/ICC or the boycott movements because Israel can ride that out due to the Cut Trees for Dollar Suitcases American help. So, no, not blaming China at all. They did some trade restrictions on Israel and helped in the UNSC. However, it is a different game if/when Iran is the next 'regime change' target and that will start to get closer to China's comfort zone.

What mattered was a War of Attrition--a prolonged war to the point where the Americans wouldn't directly intervene and that worked until just now.

Going forward, if the worst case scenario comes true: The new regime in Syria becomes pro America/Israel, then let's say goodbye to a viable 'Palestine', and be ready to see Israel gobbling up southern Lebanon and a chunk of Syria. And if that worst case scenario happens, then more than on Israel/America, the blood would be on the GCC Arabs, the Jordanians, the Egyptians and Turkish heads!

 

[bengalcdn]

For the record, I never put much faith in China's help and I don't blame the Chinese at all. Some here had been constantly saying the rising China and the new World Order of the Global South and my response was at least not in the short term--and time matters for Palestine. Similarly, I didn't put much weight in the ICJ/ICC or the boycott movements because Israel can ride that out due to the Cut Trees for Dollar Suitcases American help. So, no, not blaming China at all. They did some trade restrictions on Israel and helped in the UNSC. However, it is a different game if/when Iran is the next 'regime change' target and that will start to get closer to China's comfort zone.

What mattered was a War of Attrition--a prolonged war to the point where the Americans wouldn't directly intervene and that worked until just now.

Going forward, if the worst case scenario comes true: The new regime in Syria becomes pro America/Israel, then let's say goodbye to a viable 'Palestine', and be ready to see Israel gobbling up southern Lebanon and a chunk of Syria. And if that worst case scenario happens, then more than on Israel/America, the blood would be on the GCC Arabs, the Jordanians, the Egyptians and Turkish heads!

This is the plan for Armageddon. Basically the western forces ie Europe, US, and Zionists will lay a seige on Al-Sham or levent. The eastern forces Russia, China, Iran and others will enter Iraq. There will be massive battle in this area which will essentially weaken everybody including the US and Israel. This will bring about the collapse of Israel. Btw there will be Muslim states supporting both sides. Turkey, Saudi , Jordan etc in western camp while Pakistan Iran etc others in eastern camp. However whoever gets involved will be severely weakened and the caliphate will be established in bayt al Maqdis / Jerusalem by the Muslims who didn’t get involved hencef weakened. In this case I am thinking of either Algeria Oman or Libya

 

[tower9]

For the record, I never put much faith in China's help and I don't blame the Chinese at all. Some here had been constantly saying the rising China and the new World Order of the Global South and my response was at least not in the short term--and time matters for Palestine. Similarly, I didn't put much weight in the ICJ/ICC or the boycott movements because Israel can ride that out due to the Cut Trees for Dollar Suitcases American help. So, no, not blaming China at all. They did some trade restrictions on Israel and helped in the UNSC. However, it is a different game if/when Iran is the next 'regime change' target and that will start to get closer to China's comfort zone.

What mattered was a War of Attrition--a prolonged war to the point where the Americans wouldn't directly intervene and that worked until just now.

Going forward, if the worst case scenario comes true: The new regime in Syria becomes pro America/Israel, then let's say goodbye to a viable 'Palestine', and be ready to see Israel gobbling up southern Lebanon and a chunk of Syria. And if that worst case scenario happens, then more than on Israel/America, the blood would be on the GCC Arabs, the Jordanians, the Egyptians and Turkish heads!

100% agreed. There really isn't anything for me to say because we are on the same page.

Unfortunately, Erdogan just sentenced the Palestinians to death.

This is 100% on Erdogan. I hope the Turkish members here understand this.

 

[StrategicBear]

I agree in the past Arabs have achieved great feats. However since the industrial revolution there have been far more losses than gains with the exception of guerilla warfare victories.

I don't doubt their ability to fight I'm referring mostly to the state sanctioned military developments. For example no Arab nation has the ability to create its own (good) air defence system, navy ships, air planes, etc. Other Muslim countries like Turkey has a good drone program, ship building capability or Iran which has impressive offensive missile systems. NATO countries (and Israel) produce their own and therefore have a great advantage over Arab states because of this.

This proves that science and technology is important. Without them, prepare to live like servants in one's own land when the colonizers come to take over...

 

[_Arabia_]

If anything, the Mizrahi Jews are actually uniformly more extreme than the Ashkenazi Jews. Almost all of the Left Wing or dovish Israelis are made up of Western liberal Jews. While the Mizrahi Jews are all uniformly very fascist in their views of Arabs. I've seen them act and talk in more brain dead caveman like ways than the Ashkenazis to be honest.

Obviously when the Mizrahis co-existed and lived under Islam for over a thousand years, they were integrated with Islamic society. However after the establishment of Israel, there was a massive backlash and suspicion of the Mizrahis in Muslim countries and many were either kicked out or fled due to the circumstances. This made them very bitter against the countries they were kicked out from. In addition, when they arrived in Israel, they were thoroughly ingrained with Zionist ideology and due to their inferior social status as Mizrahis, many felt the strong psychological need to "prove themselves" or to "distance themselves from the Arabs", so they became even more hateful or anti-Arab than the White European Jews.

So don't be surprised at all when you see the most anti-Palestinian hate speech coming from an Arab looking face in Israel.

Knowing about these details about Palestinian society also allows me to see the limitations and in fact, the inaccuracies of the Palestinian liberation movement in the West in trying to paint a Western racial paradigm unto this conflict. The fact is, this is not a "White vs Brown" conflict. There are many Palestinians who can pass as White Europeans. There are many Israelis who look Arab or even African (Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews). Half the Israelis ARE NATIVE to the land. But it's the Zionist ideology that makes them fascist and merciless. But then again, nearly every country in the Middle East is filled with insane and crazy people so it's hard to say that the Israelis are the only ones.

I know all this already hence my posts. It is a inferiority complex as no matter how much those Arab Jews (or Jews from Arab countries - they themselves are schizophrenic when it comes to what they call themselves - it depends on the day and weather), they cannot change their origin, history or looks. However it has to be said that not all of them are radical anti-Muslims and anti-Arabs.

This is a 12 year old video from that Jewish guy that makes videos from within the West Bank, Gaza, Israel etc. and is asking all kind of questions (from people from across the world). Not sure what he is doing nowadays, not looked at his channel for years.

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[_Arabia_]

I hear other Arabs here telling Egypt and KSA is very strongly armed. So what is the truth?

What is all the peteodollars for?
Could have bought a lot of weapon to bomb the sense back into the Isnotreali zionist mass murderers.

Something is missing in this calculus.

What is there to hear? Both Egypt and KSA have some of the largest militaries in the world but both are no match for the combined forces of Israel, USA, NATO and West which was my exact point. Nobody is, certainly nobody in the region. If they were, Palestine would have been liberated and Israel defeated long ago.

As for "petrodollars" (l can see that you live in Norway - a country that became wealthy due to oil), unlike the likes of USA who was built on conquest of native peoples and stealing their resources, 10's of millions of imported African slaves, migrants from across the world including even 3.5 million Arabs, the wealth that Allah (swt) has blessed Arabs with was not stolen from anybody.

So why should we apologize for our wealth?

BTW, nowadays less than 50% of KSA's revenue derives from oil, gas and other resources.

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Our non-oil economy is one of the fastest growing in the world and in the next many years we are predicted to have one of the biggest economic growths (percentage wise) in the world. We are already among the 20 largest economies of the world (G-20).

Also our reforms, which really kickstarted 6-7 years ago have just started. This is just the beginning.

KSA is the 3rd most resource rich country on the planet after Russia and USA and unlike Russia we did not steal 90% of our land from non-Russian, non-Slavic natives in Siberia, Caucasus and elsewhere.

Ranked: Top 10 Countries by Value of All Their Natural Resources

Russia leads the pack with natural resources valued at $75 trillion.

www.visualcapitalist.com

I am not sure if you are trolling or not in regards to weapons. I ask again, which country on the planet (let alone in West Asia) can defeat the combined forces of nuclear armed Israel, USA, NATO, West etc.?

KSA/Arabs should work at developing nuclear weapons and unite into a federal state or 3-4 large regional blocs. This would solve most of the problems. Follow the Chinese path after the century of humiliation. The situations are remarkably similar and Arabs are also the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese to make it even more "funny".

 

[tower9]

I know all this already hence my posts. It is a inferiority complex as no matter how much those Arab Jews (or Jews from Arab countries - they themselves are schizophrenic when it comes to what they call themselves - it depends on the day and weather), they cannot change their origin, history or looks. However it has to be said that not all of them are radical anti-Muslims and anti-Arabs.

This is a 12 year old video from that Jewish guy that makes videos from within the West Bank, Gaza, Israel etc. and is asking all kind of questions (from people from across the world). Not sure what he is doing nowadays, not looked at his channel for years.

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Yeah I've seen that guy's videos.

Yes, there are some Mizrahi who actually feel warmth towards Arabs. This old Iraqi Jewish professor for example. He is a good reminder that Israelis can also be decent humans too.

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Unfortunately, more are like these.

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[_Arabia_]

I beg your pardon, but you are underestimating China too much and overestimating the West too much...

Maybe because from your perspective as a Saudi Arabian whose country's defence industry is nowhere even 10 percent the level of China's when it comes to Self-Sufficiency, but currently China's Hypersonic Weapons alone are enough to sink all US Aircraft Carriers within their range.

Think Houthi bombardments of ships, but 1000 times more devastating and precise. China can easily pick them off one-by-one. Japan and SK are sitting ducks and have no Nukes, while Europe is busy countering Russia.

China is not defenceless like Arab and Muslim Countries; it's a Superpower who is biding their time.

KSA's military industry is booming and has had one of the fastest growths in the world of late. I suggest taking a look at the "Made in KSA" thread on the Arab section or just use Google (there is a lot of information). Comparing China with KSA also makes no sense. China should only be compared with the Arab world in its entirety. I mean you don't go around and compare Malaysia with China either. Makes zero sense.

I don't underestimate China, I consider them the second most powerful military in the world (prior to 2022 it was probably still Russia), but they are not a match for the combined forces of USA/NATO/WEST in a conventional war without the use of nukes. China has basically had zero military engagements across the world or even region in the last many decades. Almost zero military projection across the world. On the other hand the US alone has numerous military bases in the vicinity of China let alone across the entire world. Add the French, UK etc. bases scattered on every continent.

China, in my humble estimation, are at least a few decades from catching the US let alone the combined power of NATO/West (conventional).

Not only that I believe that it is a question of time before Russia rejoins their European brethren. That is why China does not trust Russia or doing much to support Russia in Ukraine.

In fact when you think about it, China is pretty dawn isolated in their vicinity. Their natural fellow East Asians that they have most in common with culturally and religiously (Japanese and Koreans) both hate their guts (North Korea excluded who are more of a liability if anything and now have the capacity to in theory destroy China by using their nukes). So yes, you can find a very messy situation in every corner of the world.

 

[The SC]

The men of Al Qassam brigades

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[_Arabia_]

I agree in the past Arabs have achieved great feats. However since the industrial revolution there have been far more losses than gains with the exception of guerilla warfare victories.

I don't doubt their ability to fight I'm referring mostly to the state sanctioned military developments. For example no Arab nation has the ability to create its own (good) air defence system, navy ships, air planes, etc. Other Muslim countries like Turkey has a good drone program, ship building capability or Iran which has impressive offensive missile systems. NATO countries (and Israel) produce their own and therefore have a great advantage over Arab states because of this.

I agree. Arabs just like Muslims as a whole were left behind after the devastating Mongol destructions. We have never really recovered yet after this event although things are moving in the right direction in many ways and there is enormous potential to be explored.

But to be fair conventional Arab armies of modern-day Arab states fought mostly against the US post WW2 and that would result in a defeat for 99.99% of all countries out there. I mean what could a Libya in a civil war do against the NATO assault? Or what could Iraq do in 1991 or 2003? Or what can defenseless Palestinians do against Israel and the US? Totally unfair and ridiculous. Would have made sense if they fought against all of Arab countries combined.

Arabs are catching up (the Arab countries not in turmoil) and given the demographics (by 2050 there will be around 800 million Arabs if not more), I think it is a question of time before the various countries develop potent indigenous military industries but it won't happen overnight and without challenges. As I wrote earlier the likes of KSA have done a lot of progress in the past just 5 years. To such an extend that I would not have believed it just 10 years ago.

Anyway all this boils down to unity. Arab and Muslim alike. All of our discussions are senseless without that.

If we are to be honest what would an independent Palestine be able to do on its own other than achieving a statehood for Palestinians (legitimate and natural wish)? I am talking here in the context of changing the major faults of the region and challenges and creating real independence for the Arabs. In my eyes it is very simple.

Yeah I've seen that guy's videos.

Yes, there are some Mizrahi who actually feel warmth towards Arabs. This old Iraqi Jewish professor for example. He is a good reminder that Israelis can also be decent humans too.

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I have talked only with a few Israelis online, that later turned out to be Arab Jews after I asked them where they were "originally from" (always a funny conversation with those guys), Some even from KSA (Najran). I was surprised that some still had some affinity but it is impossible for me to conclude how big this percentage is. From everything that I can see and witness we are talking about a minority overall.

In any case this is irrelevant, all the Israeli Jews could be from Makkah originally, does not change the fact that their overall behavior, crimes against humanity, treatment of Palestinians etc. is abhorrent, wrong and must end.

Sinwar did nothing wrong. He resisted!
His name is etched into history forever! Along with a tyrant, thief, imposter and imitator Miliekowsky a true villain.

Sinwar made a last ditch stand against occupation and became an immortal. I know I saw history till his final act!

Chin up Gaza!

Who said something else? However it can easily be argued that it was a pyrrhic victory that has come at a monumental cost for Palestinians in Gaza. I won't talk on behalf of the martyrs and their families who lost their lives and whether it was worth it but many Palestinians have doubts about it which is a legitimate point. It is very easy for us outsiders to judge and have our own opinions. We are not the ones suffering and having our relatives blown up. It is a tragedy nevertheless.

 

[_Arabia_]

Not necessarily true. The ideal approach would be to have a nuclear deterrent with ICBMs. The US fears and I mean truly fears a foreign power being able to reach the homeland.

If nuclear ICBMs could be deployed in Morocco you would see American and European presidents sweating bullets like they did with Cuban missile crisis. It would make America forget how important Israel and the Jews are to them.

Sadly this will remain fantasy because Morocco has relatively strong relationship with USA and Israel.

I agree with the approach (Arabs definitely need nuclear weapons and ICBM's) but I believe such aspirations should and would better be pursued if the Arab League evolved into an EU/NATO like organization (not very difficult to do it in practice - widespread Arab support for it among the peoples - different matter in terms of the 20 + regimes) as that would speed up the necessary Arab integration. As I wrote already, many of the topics we discuss are due to disunity and division. You can magnify this with the entire Muslim World.

BTW, you answered your own suggestion. Let us use your example here. Most Moroccans are pro-Palestine like every Arab nationality. Yet their government is very close to Israel to the extent that they import Israeli weaponry and have recognized them.

So all this is a pipe dream without unity. You think that China would have amounted to anything in the past 40 years if they were still divided into various fiefdoms/warlords/regions as before during their century of humiliation?

Or even take Pakistan as an example, what would happen if its regions became independent countries all ruled by different regimes?

 

[Falcon29]

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