HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[ST1976]

This is the Tejas Thread , am I right

here is a small detail of Indian Airforce. it states that India's Top Gun is 'Super Sukhoi' Su30mki

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10 countries with the largest air forces in the world​

At the fourth position stands the Indian Air Force (IAF) with an impressive number of over 2,296 aircraft. This consists of approximately 606 fighter jets, including the famous Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, along with persistent efforts being put into the advancement process, such as the induction of the HAL Tejas. The Indian Air Force’s powerful helicopter fleet moreover strengthens its functional capabilities in the region.

10 countries with the largest air forces in the world

In a world where aviation power is of immense importance to maintaining national security and global influence, the size and capability of a nation’s air force act as the two significant pillars of its military strategy. From versatile helicopters to high-tech fighter jets, the world’s largest...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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[Joe Shearer]

you seems to be very pessimistic compared with other Indian member, what happened?

We have a government at the centre that is constituted of people with only one idea in their minds: the partition of India was unfair, since the Muslims got a country of their own, while the Hindus did not: they found themselves in a state that was religion-neutral.

Reforms were instituted, to add to their grievances, after independence, by the government of free India, that straightened out unpleasant aspects of Hindu society and customs, but Muslim society and customs were left untouched.

Finally, there was a feeling of frustration outside the very narrow number of highly educated politicians and voters that those who were not educated and brought up the same way, culturally and socially, were being left out of democratic decision-making.

As a result, a supposedly non-political organisation that had contributed nothing to the independence movement and was ignored by the post-indepdence governments for some decades mounted a deep-rooted campaign to reverse these three:

• The refusal to consider India a Hindu-religion dominated state;
• The one-sided reforms of Hindu society that left out Muslim society, and allowed Muslims to continue with their personal law;
• The political domination of the English-educated elite over the large segment of wannabe leaders with other backgrounds who felt left out;

This programme effectively took to the distrust of the Muslim (and Christian) communities as a point around which they could rally their supporters.

Unfortunately, this leaves little room for other skills and capabilities.

As a result, we have a party that gets around 35 to 40% of the electoral vote, heavily concentrated in three or four states, and wins general elections (to the central parliament) and is largely constituted of people totally ignorant of administration, contemptuous of constitutional and parliamentary norms, and focussed on one and only one issue.

That extreme focus is why the government does not know what to do and falls back on publicity heavy gestures that do nothing for progress.

That is why we are floundering in almost every walk of life.

That is part of why I am pessimistic; the other parts are due to the failure of other political parties to challenge this narrative or to win elections and due to the corruption of the newly-formed and not very well-informed middle classes by social media.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you wish to probe the depths of my pessimism, I am almost equally pessimistic about the US, China, Russia, and most countries of Europe and South America, leading with the United Kingdom. That leaves only Africa, to a lesser extent, Australia and New Zealand. Canada, too, once it shakes off the popinjay heading the country now.

 

[iblini]

We have a government at the centre that is constituted of people with only one idea in their minds: the partition of India was unfair, since the Muslims got a country of their own, while the Hindus did not: they found themselves in a state that was religion-neutral.

Reforms were instituted, to add to their grievances, after independence, by the government of free India, that straightened out unpleasant aspects of Hindu society and customs, but Muslim society and customs were left untouched.

Finally, there was a feeling of frustration outside the very narrow number of highly educated politicians and voters that those who were not educated and brought up the same way, culturally and socially, were being left out of democratic decision-making.

As a result, a supposedly non-political organisation that had contributed nothing to the independence movement and was ignored by the post-indepdence governments for some decades mounted a deep-rooted campaign to reverse these three:

• The refusal to consider India a Hindu-religion dominated state;
• The one-sided reforms of Hindu society that left out Muslim society, and allowed Muslims to continue with their personal law;
• The political domination of the English-educated elite over the large segment of wannabe leaders with other backgrounds who felt left out;

This programme effectively took to the distrust of the Muslim (and Christian) communities as a point around which they could rally their supporters.

Unfortunately, this leaves little room for other skills and capabilities.

As a result, we have a party that gets around 35 to 40% of the electoral vote, heavily concentrated in three or four states, and wins general elections (to the central parliament) and is largely constituted of people totally ignorant of administration, contemptuous of constitutional and parliamentary norms, and focussed on one and only one issue.

That extreme focus is why the government does not know what to do and falls back on publicity heavy gestures that do nothing for progress.

That is why we are floundering in almost every walk of life.

That is part of why I am pessimistic; the other parts are due to the failure of other political parties to challenge this narrative or to win elections and due to the corruption of the newly-formed and not very well-informed middle classes by social media.

Politics aside, what is the reason for you being pressimistic about the Indian's defence sector.

 

[Michael]

you seems to be very pessimistic compared with other Indian member, what happened?

Joe is an extremely rare rational and objective member of India on PDF. Unfortunately, India is desperately short of people like him. In the eyes of most Indians, he is an “outlier”.

If you wish to probe the depths of my pessimism, I am almost equally pessimistic about the US, China, Russia, and most countries of Europe and South America, leading with the United Kingdom. That leaves only Africa, to a lesser extent, Australia and New Zealand. Canada, too, once it shakes off the popinjay heading the country now.

I'll send you a Chinese phrase. “知足常乐！”
You know Chinese, so I won't translate what it means!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe is an extremely rare rational and objective member of India on PDF. Unfortunately, India is desperately short of people like him. In the eyes of most Indians, he is an “outlier”.

That is the sad thing.
There are millions of us, even on crappy social media such as Twitter or Facebook, but our voices are swamped by many more millions who think differently.

I'll send you a Chinese phrase. “知足常乐！”
You know Chinese, so I won't translate what it means!

LOL.
That is well, but if we stop being discontented, millions of our countrymen will continue to live the lives of the oppressed.
BTW, it is @Nilgiri who knows Chinese. I am merely fond of things Chinese, and hang on to the little knowledge I have with avid interest.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Politics aside, what is the reason for you being pressimistic about the Indian's defence sector.

That will require a detailed answer, and I may have to drag you through the minute bits of the Army separately, and the Air Force, and even, sadly, the Navy.

I am suffering from a burnt hand (from a kitchen accident), and will prepare my post slowly. Please bear with me.

 

[Deino]

you seems to be very pessimistic compared with other Indian member, what happened?

I would better call him realistic than rather pessimistic!

And that‘s the point for so many reasonable members here: Name us any major Indian aerospace project that was in time, on budget and on par with the specifications at least within a reasonable margin, so that it could be introduced in the expected numbers?

… the Tejas in any variant is surely not on that list!

 

[MirageBlue]

The third assembly line for the Tejas Mk1A, at Nashik (apart from the 2 at HAL Bangalore) is almost fully ready with machinery in place and should begin delivering Tejas Mk1A fighters from early 2025 onwards. When fully active, this will take the total numbers of Tejas Mk1A fighters that can be assembled by HAL to 24.

Even Dassault can't go beyond 15-16 per year despite their best efforts and an extremely healthy export and domestic backlog, due to their own supply chain constraints.

HAL Nashik ready to be 3rd production line for Tejas jets

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Nasik plant is on track to become the third production line for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk1A.

Sources familiar with the project informed India Today that work at the facility is progressing rapidly, with the infrastructure setup nearing completion and machinery installation underway to make the production line fully operational.

Sources confirmed that the Nasik production line is expected to be fully ready by the first trimester of 2025, with greater clarity on the delivery timelines anticipated by April 2025. This facility will join HAL’s two existing production lines in Bengaluru, with each line slated to produce eight LCA Mk1A aircraft annually, significantly bolstering the IAF’s combat fleet.

..

Now if only GE Aerospace manages to do what it bloody well contracted to do 4 years ago, and begins supplies of the F-405-IN20 engines from early 2025. Till then, HAL is just building the airframes with all the piping and wiring and as far as I know, using Category B F-404 engines to test out the newly assembled fighters since they need to be powered on for testing all the systems, avionics, etc.

However, the LCA Mk1A project has faced delays due to supply chain disruptions, particularly in procuring engines from the United States. Despite these setbacks, HAL is ensuring its production infrastructure remains on schedule to prevent further delays once the supply chain issues are resolved.

This article makes it clear that HAL Nashik will roll out the first Tejas Mk1A that they'll assemble at the new assembly line in March 2025.

HAL Nashik set to roll out Tejas Mk1A by March 2025

NEW DELHI:

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is preparing to roll out the first LCA Tejas Mk1A fighter jet from its Nashik production facility by March 2025.

The Nashik plant, inaugurated in 2023 by Defense Secretary Giridhar Aramane, serves as HAL’s third production line for the Light Combat Aircraft program. Together with the Bengaluru lines, the facility will enable an annual production capacity of 24 Tejas Mk1A jets.

..

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would better call him realistic than rather pessimistic!

And that‘s the point for so many reasonable members here: Name us any major Indian aerospace project that was in time, on budget and on par with the specifications at least within a reasonable margin, so that it could be introduced in the expected numbers?

… the Tejas in any variant is surely not on that list!

A rather bitter pill to swallow.

@Deino is looking at things from a 36,000 feet position, and is justified in saying so.
However, against the bureaucratic (NOT technological) disaster that killed Tejas in infancy, or (this time, technical) the reasons that prevented the replacement to the Kiran from ever seeing the light of day, in spite of being planned for replacement by the Sitara from the 90s onwards, it must be pointed out that under Ashoke Baweja's leadership, the very successful ALH (now called Dhruv) met all requirements laid down, bar one, and that too has been detected, identified and fixed.

So, too, with the propeller-driven HTT 40, that in spite of mild hiccups, has reached numbers. With this plane, the problem in reaching numbers earlier, on schedule, was the abysmal commercial planning of HAL, and the empty shelves, at the time, of the indigenous aerospace industry. That led to an enfuriated Air Force first rejecting it, due to its cost being TWICE that of the equivalent Pilatus, and then grudgingly accepting it after HAL made hasty revisions in its pricing and brought it down to merely tearful levels.

The sequence that the IAF follows is basic training on a prop aircraft, transition to jet flying on an intermediate jet trainer, then final transition to an operational aircraft through, typically, a twin-seater version. So it is the HTT 40, 2/3 of the fleet, and Pilatus (1/3), followed by the Hawk, that was never, ever replaced by the Sitara, followed by twin-seater versions (where they existed) of the SU30, the Rafale, the MiG29, and the Jaguar. The Tejas is still trickling in, and will never, ever replace the vast number of MiG21s it was to have replaced.

Incidentally, Ashok Baweja was the only Chairman of HAL to make it to the post from trainee onwards, and without being a Managing Director; earlier Chairpersons had walked in from the Air Force, or from Bangalore, Nashik, Lucknow or Koraput. Ashok was Director Development of the Rotary Wing department, that had been hived off from Bangalore Complex, and it was there that he built the ALH. It is not possible to detail the frustrations of building the HAL in the conditions of technical deprivation prevalent then; while my own little side-show was struggling to acquire two Silicon Graphics workstations, and had to fight to get the IBM-Bull workstations, it was painful to walk into Singapore's equivalent and find entire rooms filled with the latest, mid-range and higher SG systems.

Nobody who hasn't lived through that starvation will ever understand why things happened the way they did.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Now if only GE Aerospace manages to do what it bloody well contracted to do 4 years ago, and begins supplies of the F-405-IN20 engines from early 2025.

This wasn't accidental, Tovarisch.

 

[MirageBlue]

Images from some tender (most likely for model making) that ADA released for the model of the Tejas Mk2 that will be displayed at Aero India 2025 in Feb.

Credit- Kenny on Twitter.

Shows the following:

- ASRAAM missiles on wing tips (NG-CCM in IAF parlance)
- Astra Mk1 or Mk2 on the starboard side outermost pylon
- Bomb carrier with 4 X SAAW PGMs (125 kg each)
- new "pinched waist" drop tank
- Litening LDP on chin pylon
- Center drop tank
- Tara PGM on the second chin fuselage pylon
- Rudram 2 missile
- New dual carriage pylon with 2 X Astra Mk1/Mk2 missiles
- ASRAAM on portside outermost wing pylon
- ASRAAM on wing tip pylon

Shows that the Tejas Mk2 in an air superiority config is being designed to carry up to 6 BVRAAMs and in a beast mode can even go up to 10 BVRAAAMs and 2 CCMs.

 

[harpy1]

Embarrassed

Can somebody tell me when are we inducting the mark1a
When is mark 2 to be unveiled
When will Amca be unveiled

The world is moving to fifth generation fighters I'm taking serious air forces not Nigeria or Myanmar etc

We are currently about one generation behind every body

 

[onlinpunit]

Images from some tender (most likely for model making) that ADA released for the model of the Tejas Mk2 that will be displayed at Aero India 2025 in Feb.

Credit- Kenny on Twitter.

Shows the following:

- ASRAAM missiles on wing tips (NG-CCM in IAF parlance)
- Astra Mk1 or Mk2 on the starboard side outermost pylon
- Bomb carrier with 4 X SAAW PGMs (125 kg each)
- new "pinched waist" drop tank
- Litening LDP on chin pylon
- Center drop tank
- Tara PGM on the second chin fuselage pylon
- Rudram 2 missile
- New dual carriage pylon with 2 X Astra Mk1/Mk2 missiles
- ASRAAM on portside outermost wing pylon
- ASRAAM on wing tip pylon

Shows that the Tejas Mk2 in an air superiority config is being designed to carry up to 6 BVRAAMs and in a beast mode can even go up to 10 BVRAAAMs and 2 CCMs.

Wow ! They will display a model.! Such a great achievement !!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Shows that the Tejas Mk2 in an air superiority config is being designed to carry up to 6 BVRAAMs and in a beast mode can even go up to 10 BVRAAAMs and 2 CCMs.

You should be sick and tired of these empty boasts, with a plethora of specifications but not a single working formation.