TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[Ali_Baba]

So then why was P0, the first prototype KAAN rushed into first flight? Just managing 1 more flight in the entire year.

I dont think anyone thinks it was rushed - the development path follows the same path as other programmes with progressive new prototypes refinining the design to get to where they want to.

There will be lessons learned, which will feed into the next prototype, which is how this works.

I am looking forward to the next prototype to see what they have changed. I expect them to make design changes.

 

[Oublious]

So then why was P0, the first prototype KAAN rushed into first flight? Just managing 1 more flight in the entire year.

It was demonstration to other countries, when they introduce second PT it will fly a lot off.

 

[lacy]

So then why was P0, the first prototype KAAN rushed into first flight? Just managing 1 more flight in the entire year.

I think it was mainly political. the aircraft was meant as a ground test unit but was made flight-worthy after a lot of changes. it became more expensive but it had some positive effects on the program, too. Mainly, the validation of the flight software and flight-related avionics, maturity of the supply chain, some fixes on the software(like aggressive elevator movements at take off) and overall moral boost. Clearing out the first flight must have given more confidence to the engineers.

but the airframe cannot be pushed much and therefore we haven't seen much activity from it. it will fly at least once more but after that we have no indication to assume it will continue flying. The second and third prototypes are in assembly and will fly next year. Those will be the real birds.

 

[hyperman]

So then why was P0, the first prototype KAAN rushed into first flight? Just managing 1 more flight in the entire year.

Well a lot of the changes are b/c of the testing of the first prototype, Turkey is doing rapid prototype testing, its a bit expensive, compared to more modern methods of digital simulations, but this development method has its own advantages, compared to the more modern methods of computer simulations.

 

[UKBengali]

Does anyone have any concrete information on the KAAN fighter like dry-wet thrust, T/W ratio and current stage of development?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Well a lot of the changes are b/c of the testing of the first prototype, Turkey is doing rapid prototype testing, its a bit expensive, compared to more modern methods of digital simulations, but this development method has its own advantages, compared to the more modern methods of computer simulations.

Agree - it is a similar approach that SpaceX is doing (but with fewer crashes!). Iterate through design, build and test until you get to the finished product.

 

[hyperman]

Does anyone have any concrete information on the KAAN fighter like dry-wet thrust, T/W ratio and current stage of development?

That depends.. With the current GE F110 engines, or the projected stats with the TF35000?

 

[MirageBlue]

I think it was mainly political. the aircraft was meant as a ground test unit but was made flight-worthy after a lot of changes. it became more expensive but it had some positive effects on the program, too. Mainly, the validation of the flight software and flight-related avionics, maturity of the supply chain, some fixes on the software(like aggressive elevator movements at take off) and overall moral boost. Clearing out the first flight must have given more confidence to the engineers.

but the airframe cannot be pushed much and therefore we haven't seen much activity from it. it will fly at least once more but after that we have no indication to assume it will continue flying. The second and third prototypes are in assembly and will fly next year. Those will be the real birds.

Flight control software is updated in stages, very painstakingly using an approach called gain. It requires hundreds of flights to even explore a quarter of the test points across the envelope.

Just having 2 flights in the entire year means that the FBW FCS has hardly been updated or tested at all.

This was clearly a political thing, they wanted to get it up in the air as per the political directive. Otherwise if there is a heavily modified P1 that is supposed to represent the more production ready KAAN, then they should have simply waited for it to be ready and then carried out it's test flights.

 

[UKBengali]

That depends.. With the current GE F110 engines, or the projected stats with the TF35000?

Turkish domestic engine.

 

[mulj]

Turkish domestic engine.

that one is in development stage, basically whole program is stalled because of it and turks know it. once they manage to produce adequate engine for KAAN then they can say that the program is completed, meanwhile what other people said, testing, testing, testing and information gathering.

 

[Indos]

that one is in development stage, basically whole program is stalled because of it and turks know it. once they manage to produce adequate engine for KAAN then they can say that the program is completed, meanwhile what other people said, testing, testing, testing and information gathering.

It is not stalled because of domestic engine development. It is pretty stupid and risky if the program relies on domestic engine since Turkiye is still not yet able to make one.

It is built based on American engine first, then later if domestic engine development is completed then it can switch to domestic version. Similar like Chinese plane as well, previously using Russia engine then build the domestic engine that mimic the Russian one to replace the Russian when domestic engine is ready

 

[mulj]

It is not stalled because of domestic engine development. It is pretty stupid and risky if the program relies on domestic engine since Turkiye is still not yet able to make one.

It is built based on American engine first, then later if domestic engine development is completed then it can switch to domestic version. Similar like Chinese plane as well, previously using Russia engine then build the domestic engine that mimic the Russian one to replace the Russian when domestic engine is ready

basically it is for long term projections as they can not rely on imported engines for any serious strategy. KAAN if not produced in hundreds or even couple of thousands does not fulfill main purpose which is political power projection on world stage.

 

[UKBengali]

that one is in development stage, basically whole program is stalled because of it and turks know it. once they manage to produce adequate engine for KAAN then they can say that the program is completed, meanwhile what other people said, testing, testing, testing and information gathering.

I really think that Turkey should have partnered with Russia to build SU-57/KAAN engine.

Yes sanctions on Russia after 2022 would have complicated the joint project but by now, an almost production ready engine would be available.

 

[Aziqbal]

The success of this project will be determined by the availability of the jet engine

If turkey can build that reliable engine and TF35000 come deliver those results that I promised then this project can be successful

We have to wait another few years maybe 2030

 

[mulj]

I really think that Turkey should have partnered with Russia to build SU-57/KAAN engine.

Yes sanctions on Russia after 2022 would have complicated the joint project but by now, an almost production ready engine would be available.

I think that they are on better path now of their own one.
slower one? yes, but with tremendous internal and external strategic implications.