Chinese 6th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

And then God inspires those "underdogs" to create a completely different technology which renders all these advantages obsolete. Human plans. God laughs.

This idea - "Human plans. God laughs." is very apt. Taliban defeating all the armies of NATO is a perfect example of this. Technology is a great tool but it will never replace what God has given to humans. Another (and better) example of human beating superior technology with inferior tech:


It's good to see China surpassing the West in technology, which will aid them greatly in any war, but now the real test begins. After all, China has been planning for many eventualities but what will happen when the rubber meets the road? That is to be determined.
 
Hi all just joined the forum recently to discuss the 6th gen fighters.

Has anyone talked about thermal energy management? We see on the CAC 6th gen prototype that they have already installed two large side and forward aspect windows for optic and thermal sensors. Two such windows instead of single small canopy like used on all the 5th generation fighters including KF-21 and KAAN.

Would have two sensors help with determining distance as a secondary method to software and sensor hardware distance detection used in previous generation? Similar to our two eyes establishing depth vs single eye.

Previous methods I call software method because they calibrate the sensor and use algorithms to work out distance of target given the hardware's properties. The Chengdu fighter using two suggests perhaps the fighter now also can establish distance to a higher accuracy with redundancy by combining all these methods and calculating more accurate solution.

This suggests thermal signature as one way to defeat existing 5th generation fighter's radar stealth from frontal aspect.

At least this seems to be one major difference. And since thermal energy management is a big difference in generation change, it would imply that 6th generation itself would be improving on their own thermal signature. J-20 used China's first generation of metamaterial skins. F-22 did not use metamaterials and only F-35 applied this on its skin.

It would not be surprising if next generation will apply newer metamaterials and underlying structure of skin which have superior thermal management. Particularly since we know at least the CAC 6th gen is designed to fly very high most likely above 20,000m and supercruise above mach 2. Some are claiming above 30,000m and above mach 3.5 but those comments are from randoms and have no credibility. It is reasonable to suggest around 20,000m max and mach 3.5 top speed at higher altitudes but cruise through mach 2. This will still generate significant heat even at 20,000m. If it is designed to see 5th generation at much longer than 100km using thermal only then itself also should have made some emphasis to hide from exactly this. Latest existing thermal passive detection can achieve 75km against typical fighter sized object flying at mach 1 against ambient sky, next gen sensors will do much better.

Oh and the radome of the 6th gen from Chengdu is more than twice the cross section area of a flanker's and more than 1.5x the area of the J-20's. It is also supposedly going to use next generation GaO based terrahertz active phased array. These metrics are all exponent properties. This thing would fry through a Raptor's AESA and electronics at range. A true electronic weapon in and of itself the way this was said for Mig-31's Zaslon and all the US AESAs except being ~3 times the wattage output owing to an additional superheavy thrust engine's power generation and the greater thermal and electric efficiency of applying GaO base tech.

From observation it looks like CAC and SAC emphasize different things. CAC's 6th gen is designed based on sweep angle and blended wing fuselage to be high speed and high altitude. Third engine will help achieve this extra speed. All three engines will be variable cycle type to improve efficiency and loitering time. Basically it can choose to zoom and choose to cruise slower but high up. Wing loading suggest maximizing lift.

Totally no rudder or any horizontal and vertical stabilisers or even ventral fins that are canted control to maximize all aspect stealth. Which means it does not emphasize maneouverability. I would call it long BVR focused only with 5th generation, 4th generation and UCAVs performing closer ranged BVR and and potential merging zone to dogfighting WVR. This aircraft will stay far away from merging zone. At which range its main strengths are depleted anyway.

SAC's looks like BVR focused as well of course with greater stealth than 5th generation. However it looks like it can turn a bit better due to smaller size about flanker and J-20 sized. Has canted control surfaces which can act as pitch, roll and yaw control all in two surfaces rather than the four surfaces used in 5th generation fighters. Much less is known about the SAC 6th gen except for credible sources claiming that it will be combined with "power" UCAV, distinguishing it from typical UCAV loyal wingmans of today which have lower payload, sensor capability and lower kinematic performance compared to manned fighters.

Since they differentiate the "power" UCAV from the smaller ones and hinting that the SAC's UCAV is manned medium to heavy fighter sized, perhaps the prototype aircraft shown flying with the J-16 is the UCAV rather than the manned fighter.

It would therefore appear that China's 6th generation differs by promoting greater range of engagement with higher energy imparted on weapons. All aspect stealth is a feature of the next generation but seems to be at the cost of maneouverability. In exchange, weapons are much longer ranged, aircraft itself is a lot stealthier, aircraft has much longer range and loiter time due to size, new VCE and operating ideally at higher altitudes. Beyond this the third engine of CAC's 6th gen adds to power generation for electronic warfare suite.
 
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F-35 maker’s stock downgraded after alleged China’s 6th-gen fighter debut: US media

By Liu Xuanzun and Li Yawei
Published: Jan 03, 2025

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Stock of US arms firm Lockheed Martin, maker of the fifth-generation fighter jet F-35, was downgraded to Hold from Buy at Deutsche Bank with a price target of $523, down from $611. An analyst at the bank named "China's combat aircraft modernization efforts" as a reason behind the decision, after videos emerged online suspected of showing alleged China's six-generation fighter jet.

Deutsche Bank says it lost conviction in its original upgrade thesis from July, and struggles to find new reasons to remain constructive on the shares, US news outlet Business Insider reported on Thursday.

"We're downgrading Lockheed to Hold [from Buy] as we feel our prior thesis struggles to hold water and we have increased concern on the long-term support for F-35 in the face of China's combat aircraft modernization efforts," US news outlet Barron's quoted Deutsch Bank analyst Scott Deuschle as saying.

Deuschle said he sees "the reveal of further advancements in combat aircraft capabilities by China as potentially undermining long-term [Department of Defense] demand for the F-35 aircraft."

The Barron's report noted that China recently published videos of its sixth-generation jet fighter. The F-35 - which accounts for some 25% of Lockheed's total sales - is a fifth-generation jet fighter.

A number of videos and photos emerged on Chinese social media on December 26, showing alleged test flights of a new type of aircraft, shape of which resembles the ginkgo leaf. Shortly after the emergence of the large "ginkgo leaf" aircraft, another video circulated online on December 26, showing another new type of aircraft, seemingly smaller than the "ginkgo leaf" one, in an apparent flight test.

The Washington Times quoted defense analysts as saying that the two new fighters "appear to be Beijing's first advanced sixth-generation stealth fighters."

Neither the Chinese military nor the Chinese defense industry has verified the videos and photos, or made any official announcement on the aircraft as of press time. However, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Eastern Theater Command on Wednesday released a music video to celebrate the New Year, with a scene showing a ginkgo leaf and a bird triggering netizens' associations to the alleged debuts of China's sixth-generation fighter jets.

While the US has sixth-generation jet fighter programs, referred to as next-generation air dominance, or NGAD, and Lockheed is likely bidding to provide those planes, how the process will play out isn't clear, Barron's said.

The US Air Force has decided to let the incoming Trump administration make its own decision on the path forward for its NGAD fighter. In the summer of 2024, the US Air Force paused its effort to develop and build a sixth-generation fighter amid concerns about its potential costs, US media outlet the Defense News reported on December 6.

Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Friday that there have been several videos on test flights of alleged China's next-generation aircraft, but there has not been an official confirmation.

However, despite of this information being unconfirmed, Lockheed Martin's long-term prospect remains in doubt, leading to the downgrading of its stock.

While the videos are not confirmed, they indicated to the outside world that China is progressing fast in the scientific research and exploration of its next-generation military aircraft. By comparison, there are no publicly known videos showing the testing of the US' sixth-generation fighter jet, Wang noted.

Chinese military expert Song Zhongping told the Global Times on Friday that Lockheed Martin has wasted too much resources on the F-35. In the meantime, China has developed not only the J-20 and J-35 of the same generation, but also possibly aircraft of the next generation, if the videos turn out to be true.

 
Don't know if it was posted here or not, some fans work.

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First seen photos of SAC model's rear view, slowly photos are coming out.

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Congrats to China for the 6th gen. Since Japs, Brits and the other Europeans are also developing 6th gen, it's also good to One-Up them by developing concepts for 7th gen and 8th gen too, which would undoubtedly reach nearly pre-Warp Era threshold Star Trek levels for planetary flight combat in engine design and flight capability (Note I said planetary flight combat and not interplanetary yet, which would probably be 9th or 10th gen fighter tech for that...)
 
from:
傲游截图20250104123316.jpg

Wideband omnidirectional stealth (stealth from Ku band to VHF) is estimated to be at least -40 dB or approximately RCS: 0.0001 square meters (four zeros).
Length: 22 meters, wingspan: around 18 meters
Maximum takeoff weight: around 40 tons
Top speed: 3 Mach
Large variable-sweep Lambda wing with strakes

  • Straight-axis fully movable variable V-tail (can switch between fully movable vertical tail and Lambda wing configuration)
  • Fully movable wingtip extensions on the main wings
    Ultra-agile air superiority stealth fighter
    Chin area features a window for electro-optical detection systems
    Dual engines, with DSI蚌-style intake ports on both sides of the chin
    Estimated maximum total thrust: around 37-40 tons
    Two-dimensional vectoring nozzles
    Large and long main weapons bay
    Two longer side weapons bays (dogfight weapons bays)
    Weapons bays can carry various types of ammunition such as PL-15, PL-10, PL-17, etc.
    Estimated air-to-air combat radius: 2,000-3,000 kilometers
    Also includes an image from an airshow showing the dorsal radar array and decoy defense system

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FROM:
傲游截图20250104123316.jpg

The sixth generation of Ginkgo biloba machine has modified the details of the new picture and created a hand drawn three view view
Broadband omnidirectional stealth (stealth from Ku band to VHF) is estimated to be -50 dbs or approximately RCS: 0.00001 square meters (5 zeros)
Captain 24 meters, wingspan 21 meters
Maximum takeoff weight 44-55 tons
Maximum speed of 3-4 Mach
Front landing gear dual wheel, rear landing gear front and rear dual wheel
Diamond shaped large stripe diamond without vertical tail layout
10 movable flaps, including 4 flexible split type resistance rudders
On both sides of the lower jaw, there are super large photoelectric detection system windows
Equipped with a lateral radar array
Three engines, three air intakes, two Garrett air intakes on both sides of the lower jaw, and one DSI clamshell air intake on the back of the aircraft
The estimated maximum total thrust is around 55 tons
Two dimensional vector nozzle
Super large and ultra long main magazine
Two longer side magazines (fighting magazines)
The magazine can load various types of ammunition such as PL15, PL10, PL17, YJ21, YJ12, YJ18, etc
The maximum estimated range may reach 12000 kilometers, which can only be used for air-to-air missions,
The estimated combat radius across the sea is 3000 kilometers

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YJ21
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