The Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict

[hyperman]

What if they agreed to cover it up?

So Armenia made up a story about F-16s shooting down an Armenian Su-25 in Armenian territory and then covered it up?

Thats contradictory and implausable.

I got a better explanation for you, Armenians spread BS and Hysteria hoping for an outside intervention that never came. lol

 

[hyperman]

What I can agree with is that Pashinyan's government is a circus. That's beyond doubt. At least the cabinet up to the end of the war,was a complete circus.

Armenian opposition are clowns too. Pashinyan was a clown before the war and during the war, just like them. He sobered up after the war.

I Bet its his sobriety that is making you call him a clown, rather than what he was doing before the war, or during it. lol

 

[Foinikas]

I got a better explanation for you, Armenians spread BS and Hysteria hoping for an outside intervention that never came. lol

That could be possible too. Although there's a lot of contradiction with Pashinyan's actions during the war. On one hand he was doing everything in order NOT to help the Armed Forces of NKR,on the other he was complaining about the world not helping Armenia. When the war ended he was too eager to sign a Russian deal that gave most of NKR to Azerbaijan,hardly did anything to stop Azeris from occupying Armenia proper parts,he then spoke badly about the underdevelopment of certain cities and towns in NKR as if saying "hey,what do we need that,give it to the Azeris".

 

[Foinikas]

Armenian opposition are clowns too. Pashinyan was a clown before the war and during the war, just like them. He sobered up after the war.

I Bet its his sobriety that is making you call him a clown, rather than what he was doing before the war, or during it. lol

I know that Kocharyan made a lot of money,I think Sherz was a patriot though.

About Pashinyan,no it's his actions during the war and right after(passing all the laws against criticizing or mocking the President,limiting the press,arresting opposition and volunteers who fought in the war,arresting journalists,sacking Army and politicians who criticized him etc.)

 

[Qaraca]

“Both during the preparations and active phases of the military exercises the F-16s were carrying out active operations, training flights along the entire length of the Armenia and Artsakh state borders, mostly at the Ganja-Vardenis, Ganja-Karvajar, Ganja-Martakert, Stepanakert and Hadrut directions. After the end of the military exercises these aircraft did not return to Turkey and remained stationed at the Ganja airbase [in Azerbaijan],” he said.


Then, on September 23, the Turkish Air Force command executed a change of shift of crew and technical personnel of the F-16s in the Ganja airfield. Movsesyan said this re-flight from Turkey to Azerbaijan was carried out through Georgian airspace.

“At 16:00, September 23 the aircrafts of the changed shift carried out the flight from Ganja through Georgian territory, to reposition in their permanent deployment airbase. From the very first day of the offensive operations that Azerbaijan unleashed on September 27, the Turkish Air Force F-16s have been actively engaged in aerial missions, that is – the bombing and air strikes of territories and facilities in the Republic of Armenia and Republic of Artsakh,” Movsesyan said.

“On September 27, two Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter jets breached the airspace of the Republic of Armenia up to 6km in depth in order to carry out the air strikes at the Mets Masrik and Sotk settlements in the Ganja-Sotk-Vardenis air route,” he said, citing radar data.

He reminded the downing of the Armenian SU-25 aircraft, when on September 29, around 12:16, two F-16s flying near the Mingachevir reservoir [Azerbaijan], detected an Armenian Air Force SU-25 which was on-duty flying deep inside the territory of Armenia towards the border, headed towards the state border and shot down the Armenian SU-25 from approximately 60km distance from the border. It was after this attack that the Armenian authorities officially announced that Turkey is directly participating and involving its air force in the attacks.

“With the purpose of concealing their further actions, on October 3 Azerbaijan re-stationed the F-16s from the Ganja airbase to the Gabala airbase,” Movsesyan said, adding that after this the Turkish Air Force started operating jointly with the Azeri air force, whereas before that it was acting separately.


Movsesyan says their analysis of the actions of the Turkish F-16s during the 18 days of attacks concludes that these Turkish warplanes’ mission is the following: the coordination of the Azerbaijani air force operations, air support and cover to the Azeri military in their missile and bomb strikes at the territories of Armenia and Artsakh.

Editing and Translating by Stepan Kocharyan


Published by Armenpress, original at https://armenpress.am/en/article/1031687

Besides,Aliyev also lied about Syrian mercenaries being in Azerbaijan...

Claims regarding Syrian fighters​

Aliyev also denied allegations that fighters were brought to Azerbaijan from Syria to battle Armenian forces. “This is another [piece of] fake news. There are no fighters from Syria. There is no evidence of this. This is Armenian propaganda spread over the internet and by different media outlets.” “With a population of 10 million versus 2 million in Armenia, we have enough human resources,” he added.

Did Turkey Shoot-Down Armenian Su-25 Jet; Deployed Syrian Fighters To Armenia?

As tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan continues to escalate, Baku has clarified that Turkey is not a party to Azerbaijan’s conflict with Armenia and is only providing moral support to Baku, Azerbaijan’s president said Tuesday. Russia, China or The US: Which Country’s Air Force Operates The...

www.eurasiantimes.com

You are just posting the claims of Armenian army, how is that a proof of anything? I don’t know if you were following the war or not, but Armenian side were lying through their teeth.

For example they were claiming that Azerbaijani troops were taking photos near some buildings and then running away. Armenian public thought they were winning the war until the ceasefire agreement announcement. They were in complete shock.

‘’In the recent days the Azerbaijani armed forces has adopted the following policy – by carrying out rapid infiltrations by subversive- reconnaissance actions to settlements near the front line, they hover flags on various buildings and take photos, aiming to have some psychological impact on their, as well as our public. The reality is the following – following a long-term military operations, wasting the majority of the potential of their armed forces, having no significant advance or success in their attacks, it’s necessary to deliver such news to their public’’, Hovhannisyan said.

https://armenpress.am/en/article/1031501

 

[Foinikas]

I don’t know if you were following the war or not, but Armenian side were lying through their teeth.

For example they were claiming that Azerbaijani troops were taking photos near some buildings and then running away. Armenian public thought they were winning the war until the ceasefire agreement announcement. They were in complete shock.

I know that they were doing well up to a point,then because of Pashinyan's actions or incompetence and also because of the weapons and tactics used by the Azeris,the NKR and Armenian forces started losing. Especially in the south.

 

[Qaraca]

That could be possible too. Although there's a lot of contradiction with Pashinyan's actions during the war. On one hand he was doing everything in order NOT to help the Armed Forces of NKR,on the other he was complaining about the world not helping Armenia. When the war ended he was too eager to sign a Russian deal that gave most of NKR to Azerbaijan,hardly did anything to stop Azeris from occupying Armenia proper parts,he then spoke badly about the underdevelopment of certain cities and towns in NKR as if saying "hey,what do we need that,give it to the Azeris".

He signed the agreement because Azerbaijani army had taken Shusha and were about to enter Khankendi (Stepanakert), and had encircled 25 thousand Armenian troops to east.

What do you mean he did hardly anything? Armenian army had 207 KIA and 20 POW during the 2 days of clashes. What could they have done according to you.

 

[Foinikas]

He signed the agreement because Azerbaijani army had taken Shusha and were about to enter Khankendi (Stepanakert), and had encircled 25 thousand Armenian troops to east.

What do you mean he did hardly anything? Armenian army had 207 KIA and 20 POW during the 2 days of clashes. What could they have done according to you.

After the war,phone discussions and other info started coming out. I really should have saved way more back then,I only took a few screenshots from the posts I used to see back then,but some went like this:

 

[Qaraca]

After the war,phone discussions and other info started coming out. I really should have saved way more back then,I only took a few screenshots from the posts I used to see back then,but some went like this:

View attachment 95813
View attachment 95814

View attachment 95812
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View attachment 95815

You are all over the place. Now you are citing random twitter users.

 

[Qaraca]

I know that they were doing well up to a point,then because of Pashinyan's actions or incompetence and also because of the weapons and tactics used by the Azeris,the NKR and Armenian forces started losing. Especially in the south.

No, it was just a matter of time until Azerbaijan breached defense lines in the south. Armenian army did conduct counter attack operations btw, a big one announced by Pashinyan himself in Fuzuli direction which ended in annihilation of Armenian units. Azerbaijan captured 20-30 tanks there alone.

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[Foinikas]

You are all over the place. Now you are citing random twitter users.

These were old tweets from Armos who were talking about the situation back then. It's what I've kept. I should have kept way more,but I wasn't that interested.

 

[Foinikas]

No, it was just a matter of time until Azerbaijan breached defense lines in the south. Armenian army did conduct counter attack operations btw, a big one announced by Pashinyan himself in Fuzuli direction which ended in annihilation of Armenian units. Azerbaijan captured 20-30 tanks there alone.

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Eventually yes,they wouldn't be able to keep going like that. Azerbaijan had a bigger army,bigger population,better weapons and equipment,a stronger economy and a steady stream of supplies if they needed it.

 

[hyperman]

That could be possible too. Although there's a lot of contradiction with Pashinyan's actions during the war. On one hand he was doing everything in order NOT to help the Armed Forces of NKR,on the other he was complaining about the world not helping Armenia. When the war ended he was too eager to sign a Russian deal that gave most of NKR to Azerbaijan,hardly did anything to stop Azeris from occupying Armenia proper parts,he then spoke badly about the underdevelopment of certain cities and towns in NKR as if saying "hey,what do we need that,give it to the Azeris".

This is not actually accurate, Armenian army was literally in Karabakh fighting with the Karabakh Armenians. The Armenians were fighting at full capacity, there was no reserve strength and force left.

He signed the deal after Shusha fell. Infact its the opposite, he was too stubborn to give up until it was too late and he got worse terms as the battle went on. The first few days the Armenian Army chief told him to surrender and to come to a diplomatic solution and that they can't win, as Azeris were making significant headway. He resisted b/c he didn't want to be the man to give up Karabakh. Its only After Shusha fell that it dawned on him and he signed a deal despite no autonomy offered, which was offered at the start of the conflict. So he was forced to take worse terms.

The Armenian proper parts were also out of stubbornness, he refused to give up parts of Azerbaijan on the border that Armenia took in the first war, Azerbaijan demanded it back, what the Armenians said was forget the soviet borders, lets just make the border based on the defacto lines of control(favoring Armenia b/c Armenia held more land than Azerbaijan), after the border clashes Azerbaijan took land, and ended up with more land compared to what Armenia had captured of its land. It was only then that Armenia changed its stance and wanted to do demarcation based on Soviet maps.

This whole conflict Pashinyan's fault wasn't that he was dumb and a traitor and weak and willing to make concessions, its that he was too stubborn and hardheaded and reluctant to make concessions that he would have suffered from Politically.

This dynamic has changed now, but it was very different from say 2018, where he went to Shusha and danced there and declared its Armenian period.(i.e. end of story), no negotiations to give it back or negotiate of territories, its all ancient armenian land and they would formally do Miatsum(unification) into one Armenian state.

Pashinyan calls for unification between Armenia and Karabakh

Armenia's prime minister has called for his country to be united with Nagorno-Karabakh, the territory at the center of the conflict with Azerbaijan

eurasianet.org

“Artsakh is Armenia, and that’s it,” Pashinyan said during his hour-long August 5 speech in Stepanakert, the de facto capital of Nagorno-Karabakh. (Artsakh is the Armenian word for Karabakh.) The prime minister also repeatedly led the crowd in chants of “miatsum,” or “unification,” the nationalist slogan that gained popularity in the 1980s and 90s as Armenians fought for Karabakh to break away from Azerbaijan.


“Pashinyan’s position on the resolution of the Karabakh conflict is in fact much more radical and intransigent than the approach of the leader of the opposition [sic] Robert Kocharyan,” wrote Haqqin, an Azerbaijani news site connected to the country’s security services. Kocharyan “never gave such unhinged and categorical formulations about the future status of Nagorno-Karabakh … After today’s speech Pashinyan has crossed the Rubicon, leaving Azerbaijan no possibility for a peaceful resolution.”

this article by Joshua Kucera is from 2019. before the war ever began.

 

[hyperman]

I know that Kocharyan made a lot of money,I think Sherz was a patriot though.

Bro do you even know anything about Armenian politics. Serzh is Kocharyan's hand picked successor, he was a thief as well. its what sparked the 2018 revolution.

2018 Armenian Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hyperman]

About Pashinyan,no it's his actions during the war and right after(passing all the laws against criticizing or mocking the President,limiting the press,arresting opposition and volunteers who fought in the war,arresting journalists,sacking Army and politicians who criticized him etc.)

Ask any Armenians, even his haters, Armenia is more democratic under him and before. They think he is an idiot and weak on foreign policy but on the domestic stuff, the consensus stuff is its better than under the old regime.

Robert Kocharyan was literally having people murdered in bathrooms for addressing him too casually in restaurants.

Google this guy. He was murdered in a bathroom in a restaurant by Kocharyan's goons b/c he said Hello to casually to Robert Kocharyan, that Kocharyan felt wasn't "enough respect" or "too causal".

Poghos Poghosyan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org