Pakistan, the IVC, and a Land of continuous migration and mixing

[r3alist]

Genuine question, why do you people care about this shit so much.

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

You do not even allow the language that originated in your lands to be an official language and take up Urdu and English as your official language.

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

We could ask why do you care about being Hindu as it's not as if it's attractive to the region

The ivc had better hygiene and sewage than current chunks of India, one might ask why you didn't learn from it

 

[r3alist]

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[r3alist]

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[Proud Thamizhan]

Despite efforts to claim their civilization is fully indigenous; the aryan invasion/migration theory can’t be debunked, it is vital for Pakistan to portray the aryan’s were just another wave of migration to the rich tapestry of modern Pakistan’s history.

Instead of downplaying it, leaning into “E pluribus unum” is a good way to rebrand our history and our civilization.

Therefore, Pakistanis, the descendants of most of the IVC, and all subsequent peoples is a unique place, not unlike America.

Spending just a little on decent quality museums and archeological will go a long way to rebranding the national image, not unlike his Egypt has done it.

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you may find it intesresting to study the latest developments on this, especially search papers and videos titled something like IVC script decoding by Yajnadevam. Very convincing mathematically and shows many of the seals are Rg Veda lines and references.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You threw that damned history away. LOL! You rejected it full heartedly and chose a totally different identity and nationhood for yourself. Why keep on circling back to it when you made your entire nation based on totally foreign concepts?

It doesn’t matter what Pakistanis do with their history…whether they shun it…or embrace it…it remains theirs.
You dont get to claim it. Why not have ur own gangetic history?

 

[vasanthm]

The Indus Valley Civilization is undeniably a cornerstone of India’s heritage. While it predates both Hinduism and Islam, its cultural and civilizational essence has lived on through India’s continuity of traditions, practices, and values. The sites in modern India, like Dholavira and Rakhigarhi, are not just archaeological finds—they’re part of an uninterrupted cultural legacy that shaped the Indian subcontinent.

In contrast, Pakistan seems almost ashamed or indifferent to its IVC heritage. Do they even have a dedicated museum or a serious archaeological department to celebrate it? They’ve done little to preserve or promote the IVC as part of their identity because it doesn’t fit neatly into their narrative of being an Islamic state.

The fact is, heritage isn’t just about physical sites—it’s about preserving and owning the cultural and historical essence. While India proudly acknowledges and integrates the IVC into its story, Pakistan appears to brush it aside, choosing to erase its ancient, shared legacy in favor of a more convenient identity. The IVC is India’s past, present, and future—Pakistan barely seems to care about it.

Pakistan’s attitude toward the Indus Valley Civilization really shows how disconnected they are from their own roots. Instead of embracing the legacy of the people who built one of the world’s oldest and most advanced civilizations, they seem obsessed with claiming ancestry from a handful of invading soldiers and rulers from foreign lands—Arabs, Persians, Central Asians, you name it. They’d rather tie their identity to these outsiders than acknowledge the millions of ancestors who actually lived, thrived, and built societies on this land for thousands of years.

It’s bizarre when you think about it. Most of Pakistan’s population today descends from the people of the Indus Valley, yet they ignore this in favor of a romanticized connection to invaders. It’s like they’re ashamed of their own land’s history. Meanwhile, India has embraced this shared heritage, celebrating and preserving the IVC as a core part of its identity.

 

[vasanthm]

It doesn’t matter what Pakistanis do with their history…whether they shun it…or embrace it…it remains theirs.
You dont get to claim it. Why not have ur own gangetic history?

If Pakistanis can claim Middle Eastern or Central Asian ancestry just because a few foreign soldiers passed through and “spread their seed” in that region centuries ago, then India has a far stronger claim to the Indus Valley Civilization. Unlike the fleeting presence of invaders, the cultural and historical legacy of the IVC has lived on in India through its traditions, practices, and continuity.

India doesn’t need to borrow its identity from random foreign soldiers who happened to release their sexual frustrations in a distant land centuries ago to define itself—it proudly carries forward the legacy of its ancient civilizations, including the IVC. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s fixation on distant, foreign roots only highlights how disconnected they are from the land they actually inhabit.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Meluhha Zindabad.

 

[vasanthm]

Meluhha Zindabad.

The word Meluhha may have its roots in a Dravidian word. In fact, some of the most recent research and linguistic analysis suggest that the IVC was likely a Dravidian civilization, based on patterns in language, trade, and cultural elements. If that’s the case, maybe we South Indians can step in and tell both Pakistanis and North Indians to pipe down on this topic.

 

[Snake]

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

We care about it because it's in Pakistan. Why do so many indians visit the Taj mahal? Why do Indians use algebra? That's like settling for something from middle east.

 

[EugeneP]

Genuine question, why do you people care about this shit so much.

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

You do not even allow the language that originated in your lands to be an official language and take up Urdu and English as your official language.

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

I think your question is questionable. Why should superficial and peripheral cultural issues like religion and language dictate one's interest in history and genetics? I am as far from Ethiopia as I can be in every possible way, but I am extremely interested in

Ardi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and

Lucy (Australopithecus) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Guynextdoor]

Well the Indian civilization has been frequently enriched by other people including the Kushans and Yavanas later. So Aryans may have come in earlier.

IVC in any case seem to be from an earlier stock that has draviidan roots.

 

[Cookie Monster]

If Pakistanis can claim Middle Eastern or Central Asian ancestry just because a few foreign soldiers passed through and “spread their seed” in that region centuries ago, then India has a far stronger claim to the Indus Valley Civilization. Unlike the fleeting presence of invaders, the cultural and historical legacy of the IVC has lived on in India through its traditions, practices, and continuity.

India doesn’t need to borrow its identity from random foreign soldiers who happened to release their sexual frustrations in a distant land centuries ago to define itself—it proudly carries forward the legacy of its ancient civilizations, including the IVC. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s fixation on distant, foreign roots only highlights how disconnected they are from the land they actually inhabit.

Moronic post…with nothing concrete. Care to back up with actual data? Where are u getting this data from as to how many Pakistanis are claiming Middle Eastern/Arab ancestry? Is it 1% of the population? 50%? 100%? Or did u just pull this argument out of ur ass based on hearsay?

This is what happens when u spend too much time watching ur shit media filled with propaganda against Pakistan/Pakistanis…or spend too much time on ur echo chambers like Bharat Rakshak…and other such crap.

What u r referring to out of a lack of knowledge…is the practice of “some”(key word here) Muslims who trace their lineage in part to some revered figure in Islam…which by default would happen to be Arab…bcuz it’s not like Islam originated in Denmark.
…so for example if someone has a “shajra-e-nasb”(a patrilineal record)…leading back to Ali(Prophet’s companion)…he/she would take pride in that and should the subject come up…would gladly share that. This doesn’t make this person “Arab”…bcuz over 90% of the remaining ancestors in that patrilineal record…would be non Arabs(South Asian)…
…and if we include the genetic material of the mothers…then that basically dilutes the original Arab DNA even further.
…but the genetic make up was never the point…it isn’t about Arab genes…it’s about reverence of some Islamic figure and taking pride in being related to said figure.

I am patiently waiting for some data you are going to provide me..to substantiate what percentage of Pakistanis claim to be Arabs.

 

[vasanthm]

Moronic post…with nothing concrete. Care to back up with actual data? Where are u getting this data from as to how many Pakistanis are claiming Middle Eastern/Arab ancestry? Is it 1% of the population? 50%? 100%? Or did u just pull this argument out of ur ass based on hearsay?

This is what happens when u spend too much time watching ur shit media filled with propaganda against Pakistan/Pakistanis…or spend too much time on ur echo chambers like Bharat Rakshak…and other such crap.

What u r referring to out of a lack of knowledge…is the practice of “some”(key word here) Muslims who trace their lineage in part to some revered figure in Islam…which by default would happen to be Arab…bcuz it’s not like Islam originated in Denmark.
…so for example if someone has a “shajra-e-nasb”(a patrilineal record)…leading back to Ali(Prophet’s companion)…he/she would take pride in that and should the subject come up…would gladly share that. This doesn’t make this person “Arab”…bcuz over 90% of the remaining ancestors in that patrilineal record…would be non Arabs(South Asian)…
…and if we include the genetic material of the mothers…then that basically dilutes the original Arab DNA even further.
…but the genetic make up was never the point…it isn’t about Arab genes…it’s about reverence of some Islamic figure and taking pride in being related to said figure.

I am patiently waiting for some data you are going to provide me..to substantiate what percentage of Pakistanis claim to be Arabs.

Let me break it down for you.

The idea that Pakistanis often claim Middle Eastern or Central Asian ancestry isn’t something I made up—it’s a pretty well-known cultural trend. For decades, Pakistan has tied its identity to Islamic history and foreign lineages, while ignoring its own pre-Islamic and indigenous roots, like the Indus Valley Civilization. This isn’t just about a few shajra-e-nasab claims; it’s a whole narrative that puts more weight on connections to invaders or Islamic figures than on the actual history of the land.

Look at how Pakistan’s schoolbooks and cultural discourse glorify Arabs, Persians, and Mughals while barely mentioning the IVC or indigenous traditions. Even in casual conversations, you’ll hear people proudly claim to be "descended from Arabs" or "Mughals," like that’s somehow better than acknowledging the rich history of their own land.

The funny thing is, while you’re asking for data, this obsession with foreign lineage isn’t based on anything solid. It’s mostly cultural fluff. So maybe instead of throwing around accusations of propaganda, take a hard look at how Pakistan’s own narrative sidelines its indigenous heritage to glorify outsiders. The proof is all around—you just have to stop ignoring it.

 

[samejjangir]

Many Indians like to paint themselves and their beliefs as original and native to the land. They like to paint Muslims as foreigners. IVC is the proof that there existed a people before both religions entered the region. Both religion came later and interwove in the tapestry of the region.

The descendants of that civilization still live in Pakistan, make up most of the population, but as mixtures with peoples that came later. So no one despises the past, but we need to contextualize it. Most of the people of the IVC region follow a different way of life nowadays, from then or in intervening periods, and that way of life, many found would have been suppressed under a unified India, as we have been seeing. Hence the need for the separate polity of Pakistan, which also happens to constitute the majority of the territory of the IVC.

Its high time Pakistan no longer shy away from claiming the IVC, IMHO.

There were different ethnicities throughout history. But none of them had different religions or prophets. So, people migrating around was common and not a major event that defined civilisations.