Turkish Foreign Policy and Regional Geopolitics
- Thread starter Eşbah
- Start date
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Foinikas
Elite Member
Sure buddy,keep your eyes and ears closed,no problem.
Foinikas
Elite Member
Hold on a minute,it's logical to ask France not to release Meteor for Turkey. It's an advantage that we have we the Rafale. We're supposed to have great relations with France,we signed a mutual defence agreement,we bought a squadron of Rafale,we bought frigates.
Turkey is the one obsessed with obtaining the Meteor. And there were some rumors circulating lately,that France might say yes to selling it to the Turks. So Dendias wanted to clear this out and get a straight answer from the French.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
Its a codevelopment project, France can veto, but Turkey isn't negotiating with France, its negotiating with the UK. The Eurofighter variant of the missile is manufactured in the UK. Its the UK whose job it is put the sale through as its doing the production via MBDA UK. France is not selling the missile, though France does make money off it due to MBDA being a jointly owned company, this missile though is produced by MBDA UK.
Btw, the sale has already been cleared, so its unlikely the French would come and reneg at this stage when they didn't object to the British proposal initially.
Greeks throwing a fit, over a 3rd party sale should be careful, as their own BS can come back to bite them. the UK is a strategic partner of Turkey, Turkey can request the any French sales to Greece involving British products be banned for the same reasoning. The British may also be upset all on their own about a loss of a sale, and decide to block Greece purchase requests. Maybe next time Greece tries to buy a French weapon with some input from the UK, the UK will decide that they "don't want to upset the balance" and block it.
Its generally considered bad mannered to interfere in bilateral relations between states that you aren't in the middle of. This is just a repeat of the same Mitsotakis lobbying senators in Washington to block sale of F-16s to Turkey. Dendias thinks he is doing something, all he is doing is embarrassing Greece again with how they failed to block the F-16 sales, or the Type 214 submarine sales and in the process annoying Turkey. Greeks overplaying their hand per usual.
Foinikas
Elite Member
I think you're the one who's bitter about it
MBDA makes the missile,which means France can veto the sale. Just like with the Eurofighter when Germany would veto the sale to Turkey.
Now you're talking about Greeks throwing a fit and making a fuss and calling Dendias "obsessed with Turkey". But really what you're doing is getting angry that so far Turkey is not getting the missile and from what I remember they only want the Eurofighter if they come with Meteor.
Now you're saying "it's generally considered bad mannered to interfere in bilateral relations between states" etc. etc. Hey bro,what about the Dodecanese? The treaty was between Greece and Italy and yet we see Turkey getting involved and nagging about it.
It's a legitimate demand. When someone has been arming like crazy and making claims on your territory and threatens with war,you do what you can to gain the advantage.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
I think you're the one who's bitter about it
Why would I be bitter? The sale already got approved, and even if it didn't its not a significant matter in the long term as Turkey has its own ramjet missile project.
Its the Greeks who are upset, not Turks. Most Turks are gloating as Dendias and Greeks flailing over it. Me though, I'm not gloating, I'm annoyed at the audacity of Greece thinking it can interfere in Business being done between the UK and Turkey. Does Greece make the missile? no, so why are you throwing a hissy fit. Its not even a matter of them selling something you don't have, b/c Greece can buy something from France, Turkey doesn't care, nor does Turkey ask the UK or others to block, but that feeling isn't mutual, thats whats annoying. Summoning the French Ambassador, to going to Washinton to bad mouth Turkey and try to block F-16s. Just insidious stuff. It will have no effect of course, b/c they don't give a fk about you, but its the matter that Greece feels it can dictate how other countries have relations with Turkey thats upsetting.
Foinikas
Elite Member
Nothing's been approved yet when it comes to the Meteor.
The "audacity"? The missile is made by a franco-british company,Greece is in good terms with France and since it's a great advantage to us,we have the right to try and block the sale. What's the weird thing? What do you find illogical?
It makes sense,doesn't it? Just like for example,when yahood block the sales of F-35 to certain countries.
Besides,if you're making all these superpower missiles on your own,why do you even bother?
When you got a bully problem,you go to the principal
Maybe,it's very probable. But it's also worth trying.
And it's also upsetting how Turkey has relations with some of its neighbors. That's the root of the problem. If Turkey treated its neighbors better and not with "gimme islands" or "Give me half of what you have or we go to war".........well,then I guess things would have been a lot better.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
I don't think France will block, b/c of the implications of the Block to France and UK/French cooperation going forward. The Brits needs the Eurofighter production line active(as a stop in the production line will mean workers being let go and that difficult to rebuid) until their GCAP fighter is in production, this is one of the motivations for the the sale, in addition to the money.
If France Screws over the UK, that has implications of a tit for tat with France, and future cooperation.
The Rafales France sells to Greece use British Martin Baker Ejection seats. If Britain is damaged b/c of a loss of a sale for the Eurofighter(and with it, a damage to the production line continuity), then Britain is also capable of causing Damage to France. Frankly its just not in French interests for these matters to become toxic, so France will tell the Greek Boo Boos, ok, I know you are upset, but you will have to suck it up, and the Greeks will suck it up, b/c there is no other option other than France.
If France Screws over the UK, that has implications of a tit for tat with France, and future cooperation.
The Rafales France sells to Greece use British Martin Baker Ejection seats. If Britain is damaged b/c of a loss of a sale for the Eurofighter(and with it, a damage to the production line continuity), then Britain is also capable of causing Damage to France. Frankly its just not in French interests for these matters to become toxic, so France will tell the Greek Boo Boos, ok, I know you are upset, but you will have to suck it up, and the Greeks will suck it up, b/c there is no other option other than France.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
You are not Yahood. lol, the Armenians made the same mistake.
Oublious
Registered Member
Greek did 1 big mistake when it comes to weapons in EU, nobody gives a fak. Why would UK not sell the missile when France sell it? Uk could block the deal, we have a agreement with the Turks. But they did not and we did not asked that, who is Greek to tell other countries not to do and lose money?
Eurofighter partners have more worries about work for the locals and keep the industry alive. France could sell it and secure the industry and make money but the rest?
They asked the Germans to block the deal, 2 billion dollar because of Neo Hellenistic pipe dream..
Eurofighter partners have more worries about work for the locals and keep the industry alive. France could sell it and secure the industry and make money but the rest?
They asked the Germans to block the deal, 2 billion dollar because of Neo Hellenistic pipe dream..
hyperman
INT'L MOD
Nothing's been approved yet when it comes to the Meteor.
The "audacity"? The missile is made by a franco-british company,Greece is in good terms with France and since it's a great advantage to us,we have the right to try and block the sale. What's the weird thing? What do you find illogical?
It makes sense,doesn't it? Just like for example,when yahood block the sales of F-35 to certain countries.
Besides,if you're making all these superpower missiles on your own,why do you even bother?
When you got a bully problem,you go to the principal
Maybe,it's very probable. But it's also worth trying.
And it's also upsetting how Turkey has relations with some of its neighbors. That's the root of the problem. If Turkey treated its neighbors better and not with "gimme islands" or "Give me half of what you have or we go to war".........well,then I guess things would have been a lot better.
ok, we will find out. All this diplomatic effort, if you end up embarassed like the Type 214 sales or the F-16s, it will make you look like impotent fools. Turkey came out of top in both scenarios, with the Greeks being embarrassed.
neither of those sales were critical either just as this sale isn't critical, but the fact that Greece actively tries to be insidious, that matter will be noted, All these things add up and are remembered when the time for payback comes, till now its just noted. Most people would just laugh it off, some though they hold grudges and make notes of all the times Greece tried fking Turkey over in something completely unrelated to Greece.
Foinikas
Elite Member
Why are you so into it? What is it to you?
