Why Secularism will Worsen Pakistan’s security situation

[Lulldapull]

Their are lot of modern moderate Muslim states which you guys can emulate

Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia

Even UAE is more moderate than parts of Pakistan outside of Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore.

Baloch problem can be solved once baloch people get full access to the wealth generated by their provinces natural resources
Instead of the money going to the Chinese and PA

oh bhai paleej......Al-Turkiya, Malaysia, UAE/ Sawdi Judea and Indonesia are western constructs and they got no respect in Islamic whulld no?

All on da CIA take....... Langley/ MI-6 brewed Islam no?

All support CIA backed Al-Qaeda and ISIS.

Wtf would anybody wanna do with these countries? Are you kidding?

I refuse to even visit them.

Just look at Pakistan and Afghanistan on what happens to you when you play CIA muzlim games.

 

[kambhakt]

oh bhai, we weren't even religious until the dawn of Al-CIA and Al-Qaeda.

Nobody gave a fukk about whether yous sunni or shia or barelvi or hannafi.

All this commercialization of religion is a western/ zionist enterprise.

Religion in Pakistan is now an industry, just like in da west......

Before the 1980's it was never like this.

Al-CIA only wanted fighters against the Russians. They would have been happy with secular fighters. It was Al-Zia-ul-Haq's decision to give them mujahidin.

Al-Qaeda came later. Rather than commercializing religion, it derived its power from the commercialization of religion. The Taliban, Al-Qaeda, TTP , ISIL all got their power because of the environment was conducive. They did not create the environment. They were created by the environment.

 

[politicallyinterested]

This is something that become a lesson. Using Islamic brand should not be a focus, a symbol is not really important as long as Islamic value is practice by majority of the people with their own willingness, not by force as Quran is stating clearly that there should not be any compulsion in religion

No one is saying nationalism is haram, nor that other religions cannot live peacefully in an Islamic republic.

The issue is that in Pakistan the state pushed weaponisation of Islam is the opposite of this because it's goal is to try and suppress individual identities for unity. But in the process it backfires worse because many Pakistanis go into an extreme mental ummah frenzy, where they reject concepts like a country, national interests and even separate ethnicities and cultures because they take a very extreme communistic form of Islam where everyone should just be one group of unitary Muslims, instead of how it naturally is, different distinct groups that have clashing interests.

It's very communistic and subvertive in nature.

 

[Lulldapull]

Al-CIA only wanted fighters against the Russians. They would have been happy with secular fighters. It was Al-Zia-ul-Haq's decision to give them mujahidin.

Al-Qaeda came later. Rather than commercializing religion, it derived its power from the commercialization of religion. The Taliban, Al-Qaeda, TTP , ISIL all got their power because of the environment was conducive. They did not create the environment. They were created by the environment.

The damage was done by Zia no? that harami got us involved in Al-CIA dramay no?

Same shit in da ME bhai.......same same......lol

Qazzafi must go?.......why?......cuz he secular!

Assad must go?.......why?......cuz he secular!

Saddam must go......why?........cuz he secular!

oh bhai........nobody is iss-toopid anymore no? Only our dalit converts iss-toopid! they buy the Al-CIA/ MI-6/ Mossad propaganda. They believe the secular guy is on da take and the western sponsored religious dalit gotta be right.

And you can see it right here.

 

[RealDeal]

I was born In and live in the west

50-40 years ago, the people in the west turned to Muslims and told us to assimilate

Not intergrate, which means learn the language, understand how to work a d live in the west, but be yourselves

But to ASSIMILATE, ie be like us.
Act like us, eat like us, have relationships like us, drink like us

And Muslims because of our faith and values for the majority, resisted and said no,
We must integrate, but we cannot assimilate

At the time all we had was religious and cultural affirmation and arguments


Go forward 40 years and it's 2025 now and in the west their is a disaster brewing
The family system has collapsed
Divorce has sky rocketed
Debauchery is rampant
The cultural and value system has collapsed

WOmen are encouraged to act masculine and pursue education and career above family
As a result that's what they do but they don't stop sleeping around, which is also the default relationship system now


They spend their formative years and 20's jumping from one relationship to another, messing up their minds and outlook and picking up baggage and trauma until they are forced to settle in their 30s

They get married, and divorced typically within 7 or so years and the birth rate has collapsed x causing a demographic crisis that is being filled through migration, which is then causing social fallout


I only a minority of men are actually successful in the dating pool, those with looks, money, body and the lower 30% of men are simply out of the game



We can see the consequences of lack of faith, values and morals before us

The consequences on the family system and everything around us

As Muslims we need to smart enough to not follow in the same destructive path

And understand THOSE WHO MAINTAIN THEIR FAITH, VALUE, CULTURE AND FAMILY SYSTEM will set themselves up for the future

Demographic fallout is a result of higher wealth rather than culture. Or rather, as wealth of a country increases, cultural change inevitably results causing all those issues you mentioned. With higher wealth, people start thinking of stuff outside earning 3 meals, finding a mate, having children etc. Compare any Islamic country with a GDP/Living standard comparable to the west and you will find birth rates that are similar to the west, maybe slightly higher. Most places in the world had birth rates of like 6-7 30 -40 years ago, the shitty places now have 3-5, moderately ok places have 2-3 and extremely developed places have 1-2.

As for your comment about the dating pool, is marriage, especially arranged any different? The only thing in arranged is looks don't matter a lot, but money and power just end up mattering much more. If you don't have money or power, you have very low chances of finding a suitable mate, since the other family is always searching for a family with money and power. You have a much higher change of finding someone who likes you for your personality in the dating pool, rather than through an arranged match where they are only looking at the size of your bank account or power/political connections.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Al-CIA only wanted fighters against the Russians. They would have been happy with secular fighters. It was Al-Zia-ul-Haq's decision to give them mujahidin.

Al-Qaeda came later. Rather than commercializing religion, it derived its power from the commercialization of religion. The Taliban, Al-Qaeda, TTP , ISIL all got their power because of the environment was conducive. They did not create the environment. They were created by the environment.

The seculars were all fighting for the socialist republic of A-stan

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

You'd have Al-hadees and Wahhabis calling you a heretic, because for them ignoring the Hadith is blasphemy.

And you assume this is a case for secularism, how?
Did Rashidun Caliphate allow such impunity to any group?

In fact the very first group that did takfir became enemy number one, called Khawarij, not cause celebre for secularism.
So the metastasis you are championing also provides cover for those who do takfir on others!

 

[kambhakt]

Ghadafi,

The damage was done by Zia no? that harami got us involved in Al-CIA dramay no?

Same shit in da ME bhai.......same same......lol

Qazzafi must go?.......why?......cuz he secular!

Assad must go?.......why?......cuz he secular!

Saddam must go......why?........cuz he secular!

oh bhai........nobody is iss-toopid anymore no? Only our dalit converts iss-toopid! they buy the Al-CIA/ MI-6/ Mossad propaganda. They believe the secular guy is on da take and the western sponsored religious dalit gotta be right.

And you can see it right here.

Gaddafi, Assad and Saddam were removed for economic and strategic reasons. Not because they were secular. They would have been removed even if they were Islamic.
In Egypt, the Muslim brotherhood was removed.

Why are you only blaming the CIA and not letting any blame fall on Gen. Zia.

The seculars were all fighting for the socialist republic of A-stan

In 1970s there were a lot of different forces fighting for control and they were all secular.

 

[Sharma Ji]

In 1970s there were a lot of different forces fighting for control and they were all secular.

The only really "secular" group in India are the commies... godless commies.

our flawed "sabka xutiapa chalega" wala secularism is anything but..

we need a UCC, but Modi 3.0 elections were mostly a flop show, he a powerless rubberstamper PM now.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Demographic fallout is a result of higher wealth rather than culture. Or rather, as wealth of a country increases, cultural change inevitably results causing all those issues you mentioned. With higher wealth, people start thinking of stuff outside earning 3 meals, finding a mate, having children etc. Compare any Islamic country with a GDP/Living standard comparable to the west and you will find birth rates that are similar to the west, maybe slightly higher. Most places in the world had birth rates of like 6-7 30 -40 years ago, the shitty places now have 3-5, moderately ok places have 2-3 and extremely developed places have 1-2.

Aha...
So the inner city, wealthy Blacks and Latinos are holding the fort and keeping it together... the nuclear family, kids and shii?

Seems you peddling fake deal to me...

 

[Lulldapull]

Ghadafi,

Gaddafi, Assad and Saddam were removed for economic and strategic reasons. Not because they were secular. They would have been removed even if they were Islamic.
In Egypt, the Muslim brotherhood was removed.

Why are you only blaming the CIA and not letting any blame fall on Gen. Zia.


In 1970s there were a lot of different forces fighting for control and they were all secular.

oh bhai yous wuz saved by Nehru and Indra Gaanddi and Rajiv Gaanddi......all educated refined Indians and they gave you a head start toward success no?

Today all yous got is dalit jaahils at da helm!

They'll eventually destroy yous!

The first sign of trouble is when a jahil demagogue from the bottom of society (lower caste chai waala mulla) comes to power.

You know this is a fact.......

Putting down secular educated people who realized how far behind our region is viz a viz da west and set yous up for success is ridiculous!

Nothing tripartisan here on India vs pakistan or bangladesh.

@vsdoc ......apnay logon ko samjha bhai........lol

 

[MH.Yang]

Problems arise when you think your philosophy , religion and way of life is sacrosanct so can't be negotiated or criticized .....rest everything is worth screwing .

If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water and slowly heated, the frog will not perceive the danger and will be boiled to death.

I am not against any reform of society or values. I just think that reforms such as these, which will inevitably harm the interests of vested interests and cause a huge backlash, should be acted upon like boiling a frog in cold water.

We should reach the ultimate goal through gradual improvement. Each step should be supported by as many people as possible, and new vested interests should be nurtured in the course of gradual reforms.

China is a negative example. Our ruling party has always used the most drastic means to achieve its goals, the “Great Leap Forward”, the “Cultural Revolution”, the “Family Planning”, etc., and every time we pay an unnecessary price for it. . The people of Pakistan can learn our lessons and not repeat our mistakes.

 

[retaxis]

Look up the definition of theocracy I gave.

Then edit your post!

Religion is banned in China?

edit your post please make you sound stupid

 

[politicallyinterested]

You don’t have to go to one extreme (mullahism) or the other (secularism). I don’t know why you’re putting words in my mouth.

There isn't a middle ground here like you think there is. In a society like Pakistan, either you choose rationality (secularism) and let religion have its own place in society, or you try to strike a middle balance ('moderate') where mullahs always try to fight for too much control on the narrative in their own jahil way using theocracy as a justification.

Bangladesh did secularism decently I think. It shouldn't be confused with forced atheism. It's just controlling the religious clergy capture in every sphere of life/governance who tend to be the most low IQ and regressive.

 

[politicallyinterested]

If a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water and slowly heated, the frog will not perceive the danger and will be boiled to death.

I am not against any reform of society or values. I just think that reforms such as these, which will inevitably harm the interests of vested interests and cause a huge backlash, should be acted upon like boiling a frog in cold water.

We should reach the ultimate goal through gradual improvement. Each step should be supported by as many people as possible, and new vested interests should be nurtured in the course of gradual reforms.

China is a negative example. Our ruling party has always used the most drastic means to achieve its goals, the “Great Leap Forward”, the “Cultural Revolution”, the “Family Planning”, etc., and every time we pay an unnecessary price for it. . The people of Pakistan can learn our lessons and not repeat our mistakes.

How would you suggest Pakistan go through a gradual process?

By covertly reigning in on the mullah class and bringing them under state control and more strictly monitoring religious education in formal and informal settings?

The issue here unfortunately is that Pakistan relies on Islamism as the core of its identity to unite a diverse population, but at the same time political Islamism is backwards in a competitive geopolitical world because it rejects the concepts of nations and pushes for pan-Muslimism which is totally unrealistic. Every country works for its own interests. This identity flaw breeds extremism right at the grass roots and influences their mentality/worldview right from young.