JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Michael]

It's L15...

There is such a possibility.
However, I remember that the L-15 had multiple small screens. This video is a whole large screen. Could it be that the cockpit of the L-15 has been upgraded again?

its not a J-35...

The J-35s LE slats run the length of the wing.

View attachment 111815

OK. I didn't notice this.
I have deleted the previous post.

 

[Ak01]

There is such a possibility.
However, I remember that the L-15 had multiple small screens. This video is a whole large screen. Could it be that the cockpit of the L-15 has been upgraded again?

yes. It is 1000% an L-15.

 

[Quwa]

Yes and no id say.

PAC as part of aftersales support provide 3 years of servicing and fleet support.

Though yes, youre right, the super mushak fiasco in turkey shows the competence. Those birds are suffering with serious issues with their brakes. bet the turks regret buying them now

IMO... PAC (and PAF) should stick to MRO.

However, net-new production, integrated after-sale support, etc, should be spun into a new entity. I suspect AHQ is already planning for this via NASTP, especially as NASTP has a mandate to become an OEM-caliber entity.

So, from there, the next step is actually being an OEM.

This new OEM (let's call it, "Azm Aerospace Corporation" for fun) will sit alongside NESCOM's new commercial-facing brands, i.e., Stingray Technologies, Qaswa Industries, etc. IMO, each of these will likely also become an OEM.

The really interesting aspect of all this is that it seems as though they're all open to (or will be) for foreign investment.

 

[MirageV3ff]

Yes and no id say.

PAC as part of aftersales support provide 3 years of servicing and fleet support.

Though yes, youre right, the super mushak fiasco in turkey shows the competence. Those birds are suffering with serious issues with their brakes. bet the turks regret buying them now

First I'm hearing about the Mushak issue. Any source to it?

Also as far as JF-17 goes won't AVIC have any input in after sales support?

 

[Ali_Baba]

It's L15...

The L15 has a nice cockpit then! Very modern.

 

[FuturePAF]

I wonder how much of the MiG-29's overseas issues also have to do with how Russia generally supports export users. IIRC, even the IAF Su-30MKI fleet suffered from low availability rates at various points.

Hence, I don't think it's just a MiG-29 issue, but a wider Russia challenge. Western suppliers take after-sale support much more seriously, even with more difficult customers, like the PAF (which has to contend with US controls, sanctions, etc).

IMO, I don't think PAC is best equipped to handle the after-sale support side of the equation. It's one thing to manage the PAF fleet at home, but quite another to support someone else's fleet overseas.

The PAF with 20 years expertise with the RD-93 has good experience in how to maintain and manage resources to best keep the engines going, within their abilities. If not, they would have probably worker with China to really go big on the WS-13.

 

[Ak01]

First I'm hearing about the Mushak issue. Any source to it?

Also as far as JF-17 goes won't AVIC have any input in after sales support?

PAC techs on ground in turkey atm trying to fix them

I guess the ones pac sell come with a comprehensive after sales support package

 

[Ak01]

IMO... PAC (and PAF) should stick to MRO.

However, net-new production, integrated after-sale support, etc, should be spun into a new entity. I suspect AHQ is already planning for this via NASTP, especially as NASTP has a mandate to become an OEM-caliber entity.

So, from there, the next step is actually being an OEM.

This new OEM (let's call it, "Azm Aerospace Corporation" for fun) will sit alongside NESCOM's new commercial-facing brands, i.e., Stingray Technologies, Qaswa Industries, etc. IMO, each of these will likely also become an OEM.

The really interesting aspect of all this is that it seems as though they're all open to (or will be) for foreign investment.

But really, beyond TA, who would be interested in investing in such a business. I guess a potential way of getting into thenTFX last minute could be using us as the MRO entity for foreign customers

 

[Quwa]

But really, beyond TA, who would be interested in investing in such a business. I guess a potential way of getting into thenTFX last minute could be using us as the MRO entity for foreign customers

Brazil and UAE.

 

[Trailer23]

Let's hope someone from PAC saw this thread and actually tries laying some ground work.

You have a better chance of getting a Piss Test from the Pope.

Yes, PAC does a piss poor job at marketing.

I have been attending the DxB air Show for Decades. The stuff they have on display is a joke. Every 02 Years you go..., you'd think that maybe- just maybethey might make an improvement in...
1. Brochures
2. Displays
3. Banners

But instead, its the same crap that they pack up & bring back (again).

PAF/PAC hasn't been to Farnborough or the Paris Air Show in years. I would assume that 95% of their Foreign Marketing is - Dubai

The one type of JF-17 that doesn't seem to get the attention is the Dual Seater. I think the PAF/PAC need to bring that as the Static Display.

 

[Tremain]

The one type of JF-17 that doesn't seem to get the attention is the Dual Seater. I think the PAF/PAC need to bring that as the Static Display.

Worth repeating.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

You have a better chance of getting a Piss Test from the Pope.

I have been attending the DxB air Show for Decades. The stuff they have on display is a joke. Every 02 Years you go..., you'd think that maybe- just maybethey might make an improvement in...
1. Brochures
2. Displays
3. Banners

But instead, its the same crap that they pack up & bring back (again).

PAF/PAC hasn't been to Farnborough or the Paris Air Show in years. I would assume that 95% of their Foreign Marketing is - Dubai

The one type of JF-17 that doesn't seem to get the attention is the Dual Seater. I think the PAF/PAC need to bring that as the Static Display.

Display/Brochures and visuals depend on which Marketing firm they used to construct these material

If they are using standard workforce with basic skills

The material used for Marketing & Promotion would be very "Standard"

It's just the company they order the services from , it is likely the same service company who prepares the material for them

If it is 1-2 same old companies from 60's or 70's getting repeat order then the same quality will show in all venues

• It's like same company with same grade 9 or grade 8 photoshop skill or people who are not very artistic
• When none artistic people work on visual projects they often produce cookie cutter look and feel (which most users find boring or basic)

If they lets say bought services from marketing company from Turkey to plan the "Print" , brochures and Displays of course things would look high end but they would also charge high end $$

I have seen private Pakistani Marketing companies they do make good stuff as well but they are Private Companies charge $$$

High End Marketing companies likely won't charge much maybe
0.5 Million USD to 2 million USD to create stuff like used Gripen/Saab marketing etc. with HD Camera , production , fancy videos

At one point the video production of PAF was quite, reasonable unsure if it was being done by a Airforce Enthusiast who created those promotional videos

The old PDF forum used to have lot of good promotional stuff done by Enthusiast or fans


But most of Print work used by Militant/Airforce and Navy
is done with visuals from 1960's , fonts the color scheme , the artistic displays etc

 

[Reichmarshal]

This talk of prob with the super mashak is strange to say the least as its been in active service with multiple AF for several years with no problems.....n all of a sudden tuaf super mashaks develop probs.....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If I was a sales man for PAF I would easily have sold 2000 JF17 Thunder
It is such a capable platform for Emerging Air forces of world

You can build up quite a deterrence very Rapidly , in case of Brazil with JF17 Thunder , the "WORKHORSE" platform , which works while other planes need servicing and touchup in paint

 

[Michael]

If I was a sales man for PAF I would easily have sold 2000 JF17 Thunder
It is such a capable platform for Emerging Air forces of world

You should know more about the real world, not the information of the virtual/magical world.

International bulk arms trade, especially bulk fighter trade, is not a simple commodity transaction. They have some relationship with marketing, but very small. More often, they are the result of international games.

1. Exchange of international political interests.
The United States sells F-16V to Taiwan and the Philippines, which is a typical case.
Some Middle Eastern countries also buy weapons in this case.
Serbia's purchase of Rafale fighters is another form of this case.

Simply put. If you buy my weapons, I won't hit you / when others bully you, I promise to protect you / I stop my friends from hitting you...

Which countries do you think Pakistan can provide this kind of political power to?

2. Fighter use and maintenance system.
At present, there are three main systems of global weapon systems. The NATO system led by the United States, the Russian system, and the Chinese system that is slightly different between the two.
The differences in army/navy weapon systems are small, and the user countries are usually easy to adjust. The differences in space systems are large, and it is difficult to change in a short time, and the cost of change is very high.
Therefore, after a country uses a fighter of a certain system, it is usually difficult to change. This is an important consideration for them when choosing new fighters in the future.

The JF-17 fighter is a hybrid of three systems. ------ Chinese design, NATO-standard avionics, Russian engines...

3. International relations associated with the global supply chain system.
At present, most foreign trade fighters are products of the global supply chain system. The final assembly country does not have complete independent sales rights, and it is subject to the core component supplier.
Pakistan is the final assembly country and fuselage producer of the JF-17, and owns 50% of the intellectual property rights of the JF-17. According to Chinese media reports, China has transferred all sales rights of the JF-17 to Pakistan. However, the engine of the JF-17 is still subject to Russia. ------ China does have RD-33 series engine technology and has imitated WS-13 series engines, but China has not mass-produced WS-13 series engines. China is mass-producing the latest version of the WS-21 engine, but the engine has not yet been adapted for the JF-17.

The JF-17 is a light and advanced (4.5th-Gen) fighter, which is a very awkward positioning.
Generally, only poor countries will buy light fighters. Rich countries generally buy medium/heavy fighters.
The overly advanced avionics system (JF-17 B3) has caused its cost to rise, and it has already left the ranks of cheap fighters.
This positioning has resulted in a very small target customer group.