PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[F-2]

And what you had the option for engine other than Russian one before the incident? None you had no suitable (INDIGENOUS) engine for early J10

Originally it was gunna be the R29-300, they were working on copying one obtained from Egypt. I think they always planned to use either WS-10 or a suitable engine they could get. I don’t think. Tiananmen Square had much to do with it, I don’t think anyone in the west knew about the aircraft till the early 90s.

 

[Yommie]

WS-10 came lot later than you expected, after 2013 and still have a lot of problems

WS-10 is perfected and the latest WS-10C is second to none.

 

[m52k85]

I have a paper on the WS-10A used in the J-11B
AL-31F for comparison

I don’t know how the WS-10B differs. If it’s just a reliability upgrade or if it has more thrust, in which it might be substantially more powerful then the curb I have. The original WS-10 from the 90s I understand never meet performance requirements, I recall but never confirmed it had a lower static thrust rating.

Can you explain the graphs?

 

[RescueRanger]

@F-2 please repost the article in English.

 

[F-2]

Can you explain the graphs?

These graphs represent thrust generated by the engine at different speeds and altitude. The AL-31F is dry thrust and after burner. The WS-10A is after burner only. In both cases they are installed in an Su-27/J-11

@F-2 please repost the article in English.

Of course, here is a machine translation.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[Oscar]

IAI did have some involvement in early wind tunnel testing but it was a relatively small group of around 20 engineers. I suspect it was a consultant type role as they of course had recent experience with a close coupled delta Canard Configuration
From AWST November 1995


Both a Zhuk Radar and an Israeli EM-2035 were evaluated but the Chinese went with the domestic KLJ-3 which was an evolution of their experience with peace pearl.

The HUD MFD package seems to have come from IAI, the Chinese had not developed such a system at the time and were happy enough to use the Israeli avonics (some versions of the J-8 and J-7 will use various avionics from Britain, Israel and others).

AWST March 1995

They ended up using a domestic radar and a domestic RWR (I think a version of what’s on the PAF J-7). Looking at the hud and MFD from Chile’s F-5 III though I seem a bit of resemblance.

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The Lavi and J-10 don’t share any lines so I imagine it was more general experience. The early J-10 was also an all metal aircraft structurally more similar to the mirage then Lavi. The later J-10B/C have much more advanced composite construction but those are almost 15 years after China and IAI stopped working together.

I have it on fairly good(horse’s mouth) authority that section(s) of a PAF F-16 that had was written off during takeoff(or similar) accident were carted off to the Chinese in the late 80s or early 90s. Whether they had any impact on this with the Israelis already there or went to a completely unrelated program is moot.

 

[Falcon26]

I have it on fairly good(horse’s mouth) authority that section(s) of a PAF F-16 that had was written off during takeoff(or similar) accident were carted off to the Chinese in the late 80s or early 90s. Whether they had any impact on this with the Israelis already there or went to a completely unrelated program is moot.

This was a rumor among some Pakistani and Indian circles but trust me, if there was any veracity to these claims, the Americans would have never sold any more F-16s to PAF. The Americans are very strict on end-user terms and there’s no way this would have flown under the radar.

But it’s a fashionable line for some Pakistanis to pursue to lay an ownership on the J-10 history and for the Indians to discredit Pakistan as an unreliable Chinese vassal state.

 

[Oscar]

This was a rumor among some Pakistani and Indian circles but trust me, if there was any veracity to these claims, the Americans would have never sold any more F-16s to PAF. The Americans are very strict on end-user terms and there’s no way this would have flown under the radar.

But it’s a fashionable line for some Pakistanis to pursue to lay an ownership on the J-10 history and for the Indians to discredit Pakistan as an unreliable Chinese vassal state.

I see no fashion here or self aggrandizement with this - this came from a horse’s mouth. Could very well be fashionable for him - considering he flew vipers in the late 80s to early 90s . But as such the US has controls specifically in place for Pakistan to prevent such incidents in the future including anti tampering controls on sensitive electronics for servicing such as the Sniper pods.

I have no idea who you are but I know who that individual is so I have to lean towards his word against yours but I do take your PoV as a possibility as well.

 

[Yommie]

View attachment 15124

From this angle it always seems J-10C is top heavy. Probably has to do with digital FBW controlled aerodynamic instability giving it better agility compared to traditional designs.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

I see no fashion here or self aggrandizement with this - this came from a horse’s mouth. Could very well be fashionable for him - considering he flew vipers in the late 80s to early 90s . But as such the US has controls specifically in place for Pakistan to prevent such incidents in the future including anti tampering controls on sensitive electronics for servicing such as the Sniper pods.

I have no idea who you are but I know who that individual is so I have to lean towards his word against yours but I do take your PoV as a possibility as well.

WS-15 has bigger in length, has bigger diameter, has huge weight compare to RD-93 or WS-13, center of gravity and center of pressure will also change and also thrust to weight ratio and lift to drag ratio will become dangerous if we put WS-15 into JF-17, it's a very stupid and illogical idea, and tell me how many light-weight jets in the world have high thrust class engines on them?, you're know nothing what is you talking about lol

 

[Oscar]

WS-15 has bigger in length, has bigger diameter, has huge weight compare to RD-93 or WS-13, center of gravity and center of pressure will also change and also thrust to weight ratio and lift to drag ratio will become dangerous if we put WS-15 into JF-17, it's a very stupid and illogical idea, and tell me how many light-weight jets in the world have high thrust class engines on them?, you're know nothing what is you talking about lol

Im confused - are you sure you’re quoting the right post?

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]