PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[m52k85]

what a load of moot discussion, all these designs are cotemporary, designs haven't changed in principle since the 70s (as long as you are not designing something low rcs), the F-16, Mirage2000 and Mig-29 (to some extent) set the standard - all are mid-super sonic, relaxed stability, fbw. The only addition was perhaps active canards after the 70s in designs such as J-10, Euro Typhoon, Rafale and Tejas, nothing beyond that in airframe form.

 

[F-2]

I don’t know if anyone here can help. I have a J-10A cockpit diagram with everything numbered. I assume there must be a key that goes with it listing everything. Janes defense weekly from 2002 says the diagram came from a “regional Air Force source” I was wondering if it’s possibly from the PAF’s original evaluation of the J-10A in the 2000s? Does anyone know if that’s the case and if it’s publicly available?

 

[MastanKhan]

No only few have DSI most of them conventional fixed or variable ramp intake, even your J10A have conventional fixed intake, and where do you get it that Su-75 has DSI intake?

Hi,

The intakes of J11 and J15 are technically not suitable for DSI type of design---

 

[Yommie]

I don’t know if anyone here can help. I have a J-10A cockpit diagram with everything numbered. I assume there must be a key that goes with it listing everything. Janes defense weekly from 2002 says the diagram came from a “regional Air Force source” I was wondering if it’s possibly from the PAF’s original evaluation of the J-10A in the 2000s? Does anyone know if that’s the case and if it’s publicly available?

Early J-10 model was based on F-16 but after 1989 Tian An Men and Western sanctions J-10 had to be resigned.

 

[Oscar]

J-10C is way more advanced than Typhoon in design. J-10C has DSI. Typhoon don't.

Lol
What does DSI add to the J-10C in terms of BVR and WVR capabilities? Just a simple one line technical answer would be good

 

[Yommie]

Lol
What does DSI add to the J-10C in terms of BVR and WVR capabilities? Just a simple one line technical answer would be good

New planes all have DSI. JF-17, J-10, J-20, F-35, Su-75 all have it. Only older designs don't have that.

 

[Oscar]

I don’t know if anyone here can help. I have a J-10A cockpit diagram with everything numbered. I assume there must be a key that goes with it listing everything. Janes defense weekly from 2002 says the diagram came from a “regional Air Force source” I was wondering if it’s possibly from the PAF’s original evaluation of the J-10A in the 2000s? Does anyone know if that’s the case and if it’s publicly available?

Could be and might not be - but the PAF has evaluated the J-10 in that period because there was/is a permanent detachment of PAF personnel at Chengdu since 1998 and it grew to sometimes above 80 and more and reduces when procurement is low.

Which is why many in these detachment actually have more insider information than the weibo insiders themselves because in the initial days design ideas were run by PAF pilots with F-16(and M2k for some folks) experience and input taken. The JF-17 is what it is because PAF personnel worked on it both from a design and engineering input/assistance and learned a LOT from the designers of both JF-17 and J-10.

The PAF evaluated J-10A, B but had to pause due to lack of funds and finally got the C after having some funds available.

 

[Oscar]

New planes all have DSI. JF-17, J-10, J-20, F-35, Su-75 all have it. Only older designs don't have that.

But what does it do that helps in combat?

Technically all newer cars have apple carplay but it has zero influence on driving dynamics. So what does DSI do?

 

[Yommie]

But what does it do that helps in combat?

Technically all newer cars have apple carplay but it has zero influence on driving dynamics. So what does DSI do?

It's very light and reduces RCS.

 

[HRK]

Just for sake of record There is no official or unofficial reports in public domain related to the performance of any jet participating in Zilzal-II exercise

I would like to mention to our Chinese members that not take most of the Pakistani & Indian youtube channels about defence analysis seriously mostly these youtube channels work on speculations and hearsay some time even outright lies. YOu could find better sources on defence forums then these channels.

 

[Oscar]

It's very light and reduces RCS.

Somewhat yes - but only the reduction in RCS has a bearing on combat. Its major impact is on removing the need for airflow splitters and complex moving parts for High AoA transonic flight(among other things) the RCS impact is there but minimal when it comes to duct shaping which the EF and Rafale both have along with algorithms just like the J-10C to minimize frontal RCS.

What it brings in reverse is that it limits top speed which is why most DSI equipped aircraft have difficulty breaching mach 2. Maybe not that relevant in today’s combat but the design has limitations. There is an entire publication by Lockheed Martin on its official magazine on the DSI since they tested and flew it on the F-16 which outlines a LOT on what it does and its benefits and drawbacks.

So if the J-10C beat the Eurofighter as suggested ( and I dont like these 2 minute YouTube video experts) it wasn’t because of DSI

 

[Yommie]

So if the J-10C beat the Eurofighter as suggested ( and I dont like these 2 minute YouTube video experts) it wasn’t because of DSI

DSI has something to do with it but of course there are many other factors. J-10 is overall a newer design compared to Typhoon. Think P-51 compared to Me-109.

 

[Oscar]

DSI has something to do with it but of course there are many other factors. J-10 is overall a newer design compared to Typhoon. Think P-51 compared to Me-109.

I disagree but it’s ok since i see your perspective.
To me the J-10 is similar to the Lavi(NOT SAYING ITS A COPY) but similar in philosophy. So that flew early eighties before the EAD(Eurofighter concept). But the J-10C has a few tricks up its sleeve compared to the Eurofighters in service with many countries(although pilot skills is also in play) - but it is a lower weight class than the EF.

What is interesting (not just from an India Pakistani perspective) is to see how the J-10C performs against the Rafale because that has been updated more frequently than the EF and is more rounded from a 1-circle fight.

Once the EF comes out with ECS and if they fit in the proposed strakes and changes it will again on paper be a better aircraft. It’s a constant game but to be honest with the advent of 5th to 6th gen - More AI led capabilities and rise of Chinese Surface to air systems - I don’t think Chengdu has any more motivation to spend time on J-10. Now its all about J-20 and its own “loyal wingman” programs.

 

[Deino]

Really? Based on „thrust me brother!“???

Honestly, even if technically not impossible such exercise results depend so much on factors we don‘t know and as long as there is not a reliable source reporting this - similar to the PLAAF pilot involved in the joint PLAAF-Thai AF exercise explaining even many details - I have very high doubts about such bombastic YouTube channels which are simply, out for clicks and profit.

And to tell the Typhoon is a dated aircraft in comparison to the J-10 with its totally protracted development phase and a first flight only a few years late is plain ridiculous.

 

[Deino]

Early J-10 model was based on F-16 but after 1989 Tian An Men and Western sanctions J-10 had to be resigned.

All your posts concerning the J-10 history is as embarrassing like your constant pro-Russian propaganda in the Ukraine war thread. So better stop talking about stuff you do not understand.