Indian false flag and current Indo-Pak stand-off updates

[PakAl]

I don't understand IK supporters so Americans or Goras took IK out of power and now the Goras are good for sanctioning Munir and asking for IKs release and some how the military is at the same time Amriki phitu and also under American pressure. Now argument is IK will handle the situation better and that he had balls bub gave India back the fighter pilot and resettled TTP. I don't understand how people can so blindly support politicians all are cut from the same cloth IK was no different he was just loud another way for the military to saturate the political scene for their game. Grow up in this moment we need rational and sanity we are dealing with India now

PTI supporters are patriotic guys but just immature at politics, it is the first time PTI came to power and that with big support of young followers, they're all frustrated at what happened. Looking at current situation, all pakistanis need to get behind the military/government and be serious about Indian attack, instead they're mentioning pakistan domestic issues. It's not the time and place. If they're were good politicians, they would give big statements in favour of the military and slowly get back in the game

 

[Persian Gulf]

Forget this mumbo jumbo of International relation, just keep one thing in mind ... India is not your friend and will never be.... Pakistan with all its problems and mess all around is the only country in the world who will probably come to your help when you have existential threat

My perception is that Pakistan is firmly in the Turkey-Saudi-US camp. You abandoned the gas deal we spent billions of dollars on just because of US pressure. Yet you think Pakistan will risk everything to help us? I am not sure where you get this idea from. But I don't blame you - why would you risk everything to help us? It doesn't make sense.

There are (almost) no 'friends' in international relations. This is a naive concept.

 

[maverick]

enough of BS indian chawtaunis, where is the action? cowards running away ?

 

[Meengla]

The biggest question on both governments' mind is how to handle this so both sides can pacify their domestic audience and neither side loses face.
Needless to say, major powers are already involved behind the scenes.

Yes, but what if there is a wider plot from India if not some even bigger geopolitical alignment?? You see: By the tragic history of the violence in the Subcontinent, a loss of 28 lives is small. Life is cheap in the Subcontinent and that's the sad truth. And so why India would target a 65 year internationally guaranteed Treaty like the IVT over this when not even one other country is supporting India's claim that it was Pakistan? Why 400 kilometers from Pakistan's borders an incident like this happened in an area which had seen attacks on tourists before and was quite a sensitive area? And why ignore that some months ago India had asked Pakistan to review the IVT? Why ignore the fast changing geopolitical alliances?
I just hope this was just an isolated attack and things will cool down. But I now have serious doubts. Certainly it was not in Pakistan's interests to have caused this. Yes, prior to 2004, there were the Pakistan backed fighters actively pushed into Indian Occupied Kashmir but certainly not right now and not been for decades now.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

An interesting analysis:

• Pakistan can block the Bharati shipping lanes passing through it EEZ and adjacent seas.
• China may show up as the 3rd party to save its CPEC investment.
• According to a Chinese analyst: Pakistan will prepare tea for Bharat, and we'll serve the biscuits.
• Etc.

My notes:
*Let's not totally ignore the Chinese angle either. She's got a tremendous claim - and that too historical due to her "century of humiliation" - on a significant part of Kashmir too. Who knows Bharat may lose the entire IOK to China! And, Modi has already issued a blank check vis-a-vis China: nobody has either entered into our lands or occupied our lands.
**Needless to say, the Opium War, waged from the British India by the Imperialists, was the epitome of the Chinese "century of humiliation". Now, she's facing the Trade War.
***The Pak NSC's stern messages to Bharat while VP Vance was still there shouldn't be ignored.
****A long time back, the current Pak Chief was addressing a group of vising Chinese military delegation as "Brothers in arms". Very Strange. Even NATO officials don't address one another this way.

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[HAIDER]

we made it South Asian Hindu vs Muslim war

Dear, look at RSS speeches past few years... What RSS already did with Indian muslims.

 

[mythbuster]

My perception is that Pakistan is firmly in the Turkey-Saudi-US camp. You abandoned the gas deal we spent billions of dollars on just because of US pressure. Yet you think Pakistan will risk everything to help us? I am not sure where you get this idea from. But I don't blame you - why would you risk everything to help us? It doesn't make sense.

There are (almost) no 'friends' in international relations. This is a naive concept.

If you want to put Pakistan in any camp then it has to be the Chinese camp not American...... Saudia and turkey are good reliable friends of Pakistan and they are not Iran's enemy..... Pakistan will not help Iran cause we love you very much , it will help you for strategic reasons

 

[PakAl]

India votes against Israel at the UN. We have economic trade with India like you have economic trade with Azerbaijan and UAE and Turkey. Pakistan was always neutral or worse, did you forget you almost invaded Yemen to attack Ansarallah (the only non-Palestine group now attacking Israel)?

You have a very reductive view of international relations which does not stand up to scrutiny.

Iran has every right to develop relations with India, Pakistan also has close relations with Iran rivals such as Usa and Saudia, we are also really close to Turkey who is our brother and close ally. Pakistan overall policy is pro Muslim, our people support all muslim nations and we wish them well, this was the dream of our founders Allama Iqbal and Muhammad Ali Jinnah, this is why we refused to support yeman war, we will not bomb muslim nations and kill Muslims, our people will never support it, same with Iran. Pakistan military and Iran military do have close relations despite what PDF members claim, a remember a long time ago Pakistan produced a trainer aircraft and Iran was one of the first nation Pakistan gifted the jet too. Regarding India Pakistan tension, India is doing what Israel has done, most likely a false flag operation to play the victim card.

Anyways PDF members need to stick to topic, which is Pakistan India tension.

 

[Developereo]

what if there is a wider plot from India if not some even bigger geopolitical alignment??

Are you saying this is a false flag by Indians or that India bought Pakistani operatives?

It is possible that the Indian establishment may have been emboldened after seeing the Western response to Israel and decided now is the time to 'take' Azad Kashmir, but the global situation is not conducive to yet another war. I can't imagine either Trump or Putin giving support to such an Indian move. Even Netanyahu would want America to focus on Iran and Israel instead of getting distracted by Kashmir.

I have heard some crazy conspiracy theories that this was done by Afghanistan to 'tap' Pakistan on the other shoulder, or by Israel to make sure Pakistan doesn't get involved in any attack on Iran, but it all seems far fetched.

 

[Fox]

I am not fear-mongering. My opinion is grounded in the reality that a 2019-style surgical strike won’t achieve much for India — it won’t ease internal pressure or satisfy public demand for a decisive response. This time, their approach feels more calculated and agenda-driven, unlike the impulsive, knee-jerk reaction we saw back in 2019.

Just take a hard look at where we stand today as a country. We’re in a far worse position than we were back then. The GCC no longer has our back, and China is openly furious over the repeated failures to protect their engineers and investments on our soil.

Our armed forces are stretched thin — deployed on multiple fronts externally, and internally bogged down in KPK and Balochistan. From India’s perspective, the timing couldn’t be more ideal. The stars have aligned for them to strike when we’re most vulnerable.

My assessment of India is closer to yours. It appears India is coordinating their response better than Balakot. But then, Balakot was not a particularly high mark to set. It was a shambolic mess due to poor operational planning and bad execution, peppered with fratricide for good measure.

Perhaps, you are right about Pakistan as well.

Pakistan was slow out of the gate in terms of crisis managing the situation and we are visibly on the back foot. We did not judge the situation and the Indian mood correctly. You can sense there is a degree of chaos behind the scenes.

Somewhere in all this chaos, Pakistan is beginning to send the right signals, i.e., a tit-for-tat counter to Indian measures. You can see where this is heading: Quid Pro Quo Plus (QPQP) is now in effect.

 

[gamaji]

Now that Modi is caught between devil and deep see, the question is what the evil soul is going to do? If he does attack Pakistan, he will most probably be humiliated because Pakistan has refused to get bullied. If he doesn’t, he will be facing a charged Indian media monster, the hype that he habitually creates, and a hurt and damaged ego that he rarely have tasted before (except of course on 19 Feb 2019). But then in 2019, he was given a face saving by Bajwa (on the insistence of foreign powers) by returning a captured Indian pilot.
In all possibilities, Modi will bring the temperature to a boiling point apparently trying to prevent it from spiraling into a full fledge war while putting demands to the international community before embarking on the de-escalation course. That is his typical tactic to blackmail the world community for browbeating Pakistan on the table rather than in the battlefield. Since, any clash between the two armed neighbors will not be allowed to draw longer than a few days at the most, Pakistan will be pressurized by the international community. Pakistan must counter this blackmailing by refusing any unmatched concessions to India.

 

[gamaji]

Now that Modi is caught between devil and deep see, the question is what the evil soul is going to do? If he does attack Pakistan, he will most probably be humiliated because Pakistan has refused to get bullied. If he doesn’t, he will be facing a charged Indian media monster, the hype that he has habitually creates, and a hurt and damaged ego that he rarely have tasted before (except of course on 19 Feb 2019). But then in 2019, he was given a face saving by Bajwa (on the insistence of foreign powers) by returning a captured Indian pilot.
In all possibilities, Modi will bring the temperature to a boiling point apparently trying to prevent it from spiraling into a full fledge war while putting demands to the international community before embarking on the de-escalation course. That is his typical tactic to blackmail the world community for browbeating Pakistan on the table rather than in the battlefield. Since, any clash between the two armed neighbors will not be allowed to draw longer than a few days at the most, Pakistan will be pressurized by the international community. Pakistan must counter this blackmailing by refusing any unmatched concessions to India.

Let us ponder on the options Modi will have after bringing the temperatures to a boiling point.

• Modi will ask Pakistan, through the mediators, to budge down on Modi’s terms. He will blackmail the international community into pressuring Pakistan to agree to Modi’s terms while promising no support for the Kashmiri freedom fighters (that he calls cross-border terrorism) in future. These freedom fighters are waging an armed struggle for last 50 years against illegal Indian occupation. Indian forces are occupying the J&K in clear and continued violations of related UN resolutions and bilateral agreements with Pakistan. Obviously Modi will not get that commitment from Pakistan. But what I fear is Pakistan may agree to the decades old lollypop of “all efforts in future to amicably resolve Kashmir issue through peaceful means”. This kind of promise has no value for the people of occupied J&K.
• Modi will ask, again through the mediators, to allow him to launch a symbolic attack on Pakistan for his face saving against a charged domestic environment. Again, it’s a usual ploy that Indian leaders have been using to extract concessions from Pakistan in the past too. A similar request came on 19 Feb 2019 too when he requested to allow him to fire a missile or two onto Pakistan as a face saving measure for him. Pakistan did not oblige the world power then and is definitely not in any mood to facilitate Modi jingoism at any cost this time either.
• Modi will not launch any air strike or ground attack but keep the tensions high for a prolonged period just as India did in 2001 standoff. These brainless Indians think that, given its struggling economy, Pakistan will not be able to sustain a continued higher state of alert of its armed forces for long. What these fools don’t realize is if Pakistan lowers down its guards after, say, a month or two, what India will get from that? A chance to launch a surprise strike? Yes, a strike but not the surprise one. Pakistan will be obliged to hit back hard even then. Pakistan will still strike back hard.
• Modi insanely decides and goes ahead with an air strike or ground invasion (on the LOC or international border). In this case it does not really matter if he tries to hit a symbolic or real target. That will certainly attract a disproportional response from Pakistan. The tension would go sky rocketing and the possibility of its spiraling up into a regular war will be very high. If international community fails in giving a strong shut-down call to Modi, the conflict may turn into a third world war or at least a global disaster after the use of at least a few nuclear weapons. Modi is certainly playing with fire and can make the future of humanity bleak in the all the possibility.

 

[PakAl]

My perception is that Pakistan is firmly in the Turkey-Saudi-US camp. You abandoned the gas deal we spent billions of dollars on just because of US pressure. Yet you think Pakistan will risk everything to help us? I am not sure where you get this idea from. But I don't blame you - why would you risk everything to help us? It doesn't make sense.

There are (almost) no 'friends' in international relations. This is a naive concept.

This is true actually, Pakistan is in Saudi and Turkey camp, which means they then are pressurised to be in Usa camp but Pakistan and Pakistanis will never support an attack on Iran, we at many times defused tensions between Iran and Saudia, refused to fight in Yemen for Saudia, ex Imran Khan on international platforms supported Iran and claimed sanctions are harming innocent people and should be removed, he supported Gaza people, Yemen people, he even tried to improve Pak Iran relations but as usual someone sabotages our relations, even ex Iranian President claimed the same. We know who it is but are too weak to do anything about it, just like noone can defend Palestinians.

 

[gamaji]

Let us ponder on the options Modi will have after bringing the temperatures to a boiling point.

• Modi will ask Pakistan, through the mediators, to budge down on Modi’s terms. He will blackmail the international community into pressuring Pakistan to agree to Modi’s terms while promising no support for the Kashmiri freedom fighters (that he calls cross-border terrorism) in future. These freedom fighters are waging an armed struggle for last 50 years against illegal Indian occupation. Indian forces are occupying the J&K in clear and continued violations of related UN resolutions and bilateral agreements with Pakistan. Obviously Modi will not get that commitment from Pakistan. But what I fear is Pakistan may agree to the decades old lollypop of “all efforts in future to amicably resolve Kashmir issue through peaceful means”. This kind of promise has no value for the people of occupied J&K.
• Modi will ask, again through the mediators, to allow him to launch a symbolic attack on Pakistan for his face saving against a charged domestic environment. Again, it’s a usual ploy that Indian leaders have been using to extract concessions from Pakistan in the past too. A similar request came on 19 Feb 2019 too when he requested to allow him to fire a missile or two onto Pakistan as a face saving measure for him. Pakistan did not oblige the world power then and is definitely not in any mood to facilitate Modi jingoism at any cost this time either.
• Modi will not launch any air strike or ground attack but keep the tensions high for a prolonged period just as India did in 2001 standoff. These brainless Indians think that, given its struggling economy, Pakistan will not be able to sustain a continued higher state of alert of its armed forces for long. What these fools don’t realize is if Pakistan lowers down its guards after, say, a month or two, what India will get from that? A chance to launch a surprise strike? Yes, a strike but not the surprise one. Pakistan will be obliged to hit back hard even then. Pakistan will still strike back hard.
• Modi insanely decides and goes ahead with an air strike or ground invasion (on the LOC or international border). In this case it does not really matter if he tries to hit a symbolic or real target. That will certainly attract a disproportional response from Pakistan. The tension would go sky rocketing and the possibility of its spiraling up into a regular war will be very high. If international community fails in giving a strong shut-down call to Modi, the conflict may turn into a third world war or at least a global disaster after the use of at least a few nuclear weapons. Modi is certainly playing with fire and can make the future of humanity bleak in the all the possibility.

If the past can be taken as a reference, Pakistan will be pressurized and asked to give (even cosmetic) concessions to India for de-escalation of the volatile situation. India will definitely try to play as a victim of Pakistan’s cross border terrorism. Pakistan must not get panicked or allergic if Indians try to blackmail it by mentioning the now-defunct Lashkare Tayyibah or any of its former member while giving this or that statement. That organization was banned 20 years ago and still remains so. We cannot keep any and every member behind the bars forever. If someone is not found guilty of any crime by the courts, we cannot keep him in the prison just because Indians want him to be in the jail.

Most important aspect though is for Pakistan to expose the real ugly face of Indian state and Modi. It’s not Pakistan but rather India using cross border terrorism (via Afghanistan and Iran) in Pakistan as its state policy and we have lost tens of thousands persons in that Indian terrorism. Pakistan has solid evidence of Indian terrorism in Pakistan and the international community must be confronted by presenting that evidence. Admittedly, Pakistan’s failure in narrative building, despite losing so many innocent people in Indian terrorism in Pakistan, have cost us dearly just because of the cowardice of our leaders.

 

[maverick]

Let us ponder on the options Modi will have after bringing the temperatures to a boiling point.

• Modi will ask Pakistan, through the mediators, to budge down on Modi’s terms. He will blackmail the international community into pressuring Pakistan to agree to Modi’s terms while promising no support for the Kashmiri freedom fighters (that he calls cross-border terrorism) in future. These freedom fighters are waging an armed struggle for last 50 years against illegal Indian occupation. Indian forces are occupying the J&K in clear and continued violations of related UN resolutions and bilateral agreements with Pakistan. Obviously Modi will not get that commitment from Pakistan. But what I fear is Pakistan may agree to the decades old lollypop of “all efforts in future to amicably resolve Kashmir issue through peaceful means”. This kind of promise has no value for the people of occupied J&K.
• Modi will ask, again through the mediators, to allow him to launch a symbolic attack on Pakistan for his face saving against a charged domestic environment. Again, it’s a usual ploy that Indian leaders have been using to extract concessions from Pakistan in the past too. A similar request came on 19 Feb 2019 too when he requested to allow him to fire a missile or two onto Pakistan as a face saving measure for him. Pakistan did not oblige the world power then and is definitely not in any mood to facilitate Modi jingoism at any cost this time either.
• Modi will not launch any air strike or ground attack but keep the tensions high for a prolonged period just as India did in 2001 standoff. These brainless Indians think that, given its struggling economy, Pakistan will not be able to sustain a continued higher state of alert of its armed forces for long. What these fools don’t realize is if Pakistan lowers down its guards after, say, a month or two, what India will get from that? A chance to launch a surprise strike? Yes, a strike but not the surprise one. Pakistan will be obliged to hit back hard even then. Pakistan will still strike back hard.
• Modi insanely decides and goes ahead with an air strike or ground invasion (on the LOC or international border). In this case it does not really matter if he tries to hit a symbolic or real target. That will certainly attract a disproportional response from Pakistan. The tension would go sky rocketing and the possibility of its spiraling up into a regular war will be very high. If international community fails in giving a strong shut-down call to Modi, the conflict may turn into a third world war or at least a global disaster after the use of at least a few nuclear weapons. Modi is certainly playing with fire and can make the future of humanity bleak in the all the possibility.

this is what Pakistan will do to India

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