PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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MastanKhan said:
Hi,

Yes indeed---all those claims of low thrust to weight ratio---chinese reliability---inferior russian product have been obliterated in the first few seconds of the combat---slow turning---and all those combat scenarios on the DCS world---they were just a joke---.

I believe if those guys had read something on the subject matter even 25-30 years ago---they would not have made those claims---.

WVR was obsolete 30 + years ago---dogfights 40 years ago---.

Even though the pilots trained for dogfights and wvr---the US had already estbd. 30 years ago that shoot and scoot would be the go word---.

All those claiming JF17 cannot do 9 g's did not understand that by the time it registered on the brain that a bvr missile was incoming @high velocity---it may not have the time to react.
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This is why the simple upgrade of the JF-17 with a LPI GaN radar on the Block 3, with a place for an IRST pod and the upcoming integration of the FAAZ 2 with an IR seeker alongside the PL-15 and the all important link to the information network demonstrated, puts the $25-30 million JF-17 Block 3 in the sweet spot as a workhorse that can survive into the future.

I would add the need for a towed decoy, alongside the Britecloud ejectable decoys and a decent EW suite with is good enough to have a fighting chance against the current threats, specially if the engine can be swapped out at the end of its life for the WS-21, with the improved electrical power.

Electrical power is as important as engine thrust these days.
 
MastanKhan said:
Hi,

Yes indeed---all those claims of low thrust to weight ratio---chinese reliability---inferior russian product have been obliterated in the first few seconds of the combat---slow turning---and all those combat scenarios on the DCS world---they were just a joke---.

I believe if those guys had read something on the subject matter even 25-30 years ago---they would not have made those claims---.

WVR was obsolete 30 + years ago---dogfights 40 years ago---.

Even though the pilots trained for dogfights and wvr---the US had already estbd. 30 years ago that shoot and scoot would be the go word---.

All those claiming JF17 cannot do 9 g's did not understand that by the time it registered on the brain that a bvr missile was incoming @high velocity---it may not have the time to react.
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You have to wonder though - what was the thinking process behind the MKI - bought when the cusp of BVR had already begun?

That TVC capability adds little in todays context with HOBS on most opposition fighters and if anything gets more additional weight.

I remember the old skool discussions from 2006-9 on the fearsomeness of the aircraft but then thinking about how it was a Franken fighter - with stuff that had issues talking to each other.
Is the most numerous asset but can only manage 50% serviceability - always needs two peas in the pod and while their upgrades are solving the compatibility issue - you're always going to have 80-100 jets sitting in various stages of maintenance.
 
Oscar said:
You have to wonder though - what was the thinking process behind the MKI - bought when the cusp of BVR had already begun?

That TVC capability adds little in todays context with HOBS on most opposition fighters and if anything gets more additional weight.

I remember the old skool discussions from 2006-9 on the fearsomeness of the aircraft but then thinking about how it was a Franken fighter - with stuff that had issues talking to each other.
Is the most numerous asset but can only manage 50% serviceability - always needs two peas in the pod and while their upgrades are solving the compatibility issue - you're always going to have 80-100 jets sitting in various stages of maintenance.
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The red flag officer called out the Su-30MKI way back then and nailed its key limitations. Issues India has yet to address.
 
Pakistan Space Agency said:
It's May 2025. When exactly are the PAF Mirages expected to retire in large numbers?

Are they going to be replaced by the JF-17 Thunder Block 3s, PFX or the J-10Cs or just a combination of Thunders, PFX and J-10Cs?
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Paf is slowly replacing the Mirages and F7PGs. We have 75 F16s, 150 Jf17s and 20 J10CEs, we will be ordering more J10CEs and Jf17 Block 3s soon.
 
Hakikat ve Hikmet said:
The crux of the matter here is, IMHO, what type of wireless communication the PAF has put forth during this ops? Looks like it's so unique (in all aspects) and secured that the West has failed to hack or jam it. Hence, long-haul silent kills that have taken the West by total surprise. If controlled by sat the sky is the limit for the distance. Note that Rafales are designated to carry nukes on behalf of the Western Europe. Everybody's back on the drawing board. It's the time to panic.....

The PAF has reversed the time for the West and advanced the time for China. It's the most worrisome matter....
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Hi,

The thing with jamming is that once you get jammed---it gets difficult to un-jam and counter.

The Paf had a need and desire---it had the chinese on one side---the swedish eireye on the other side---some complimentary equipment from turkiye and their own focus at what they wanted in the weapon systems---EW package---the aircraft type---.

JF17BLK3 is an example that none of the the world air forces had any clue where the future technology had led to---and what it could do with the given right tools.

For that---no amount of praise is enough for the Paf---. They made an ordinary looking aircraft into something extra ordinary---.

Possibly the JF17 drew the first blood---even if it did not---it got its "pound of flesh"---thank you Christine---.
 
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How Pakistan’s Indigenous Tech Helped Shoot Down Rafale Jets | Inside PAF’s Secret Weapon​


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Hi,

I believe that Paf had talked about its battle management system---but possibly not many upper tiered nation took it seriously---.

There is a news going around that the pakistani system can recognize the type of indian aircraft---.

That is for the fact that the aesa radar can count the number of blades on the engine fan---thus determining the type of engine---and that engine mounted on a certain aircraft---.

Gripen advertised battle management system it in their sale brochure---Paf proved it beyond doubt that it works and works very well.

At the end of the day---in order for you to prove what you are saying / showing---you have to put up a show---a display to show what you can do.
 
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Hakikat ve Hikmet said:
The crux of the matter here is, IMHO, what type of wireless communication the PAF has put forth during this ops? Looks like it's so unique (in all aspects) and secured that the West has failed to hack or jam it. Hence, long-haul silent kills that have taken the West by total surprise. If controlled by sat the sky is the limit for the distance. Note that Rafales are designated to carry nukes on behalf of the Western Europe. Everybody's back on the drawing board. It's the time to panic.....

The PAF has reversed the time for the West and advanced the time for China. It's the most worrisome matter....
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Hi,

It is a whole battle management system---if @Oscar has the time to explain it---that would be nice.
 
MastanKhan said:
Hi,

It will take the west a few days to admit freely that the pakistanis and the chinese had them litsening to their lullaby that put them to sleep---.

The surprise of the deal would be that possibly the swedes knew what the Paks were upto and they kept selling them the eireyes---peaceful that they might be---but who does not want their product to be the central piece of operation of that has spun the all the air forces around the world---.

So---kudos to the swedes---.
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sir jee PAF has the Swedes by the balls.......hence the swedes behaving grudgingly the way they are
 
MastanKhan said:
Hi,

I can't believe Christine Fair is claiming pakistan as victorious and calling the indian claims as " bakwas ".

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what she says on a certain event just happened does not change the fact.

she has her views about "Pakistan and India" that have never changed. i deliberately hyphenated both just to spice up things. after almost 25 years, we are seeing this although India is not liking it and is very angry with Trump and his administration.

the thing about this interview is that Christine is convinced that Pakistan did Pahalgam, although she said she is not sure. Thappar also put forward this point, ignoring the Indian terrorism in Pakistan, ignoring any proof provided by India, and went for an FIR blaming Pakistan.

assuming a few things on the basis of previous or past events to support a narrative on a current event does put her on a biased people list.

and i agree to the last point that came under discussion.

we have to do a lot, and by that, I mean everything, to get things right on the international front, beginning with the problems at home, which is a much bigger problem.

we have to address those issues, we cannot afford such incidents keep coming. neither India nor Pakistan would be willing for an escalation that can be devastating.

but a mindset that puts a few things into a chaotic implementation of events and gives you a chest thumping, is the thing both sides have to work on.
 
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