Chinese 6th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Tomboy]

Definition...

What is Innovation? Definition, Types, Examples and Process

Innovation is defined as the process of bringing about new ideas, methods, products, services, or solutions that have a significant positive impact and value. Learn more on innovation types, examples and process.

ideascale.com

Innovation is defined as the process of bringing about new ideas, methods, products, services, or solutions that have a significant positive impact and value. It involves transforming creative concepts into tangible outcomes that improve efficiency, and effectiveness, or address unmet needs.​

So, from a technical standpoint, where are these 'innovations'?

So, I guess Americans can't innovate too. Or when the US took German research it's suddenly now all fair because it's freedom infused or something lmao. German made the first object to space so I guess everything that looks remotely like it or even uses the same concept is "copy" or unoriginal. Congrats you just erased every single space race achievement. Swept wing was first flown on a british aircraft, so surely every plane that came afterward with swept wing must be a copy of it.

Now here, I'll tell you where the innovation in J-XDS is: Name a single supersonic tailless blended body aircraft that isn't J-36.

 

[Tomboy]

Shaping to reduce RCS -- not from China. Neither from Russia nor Germany.

Jesus Christ you are really nose deep into American Exceptionalism, because the actual math behind shaping to reduce RCS was invented by a Soviet physicist called Pyotr Ufimtsev.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Jesus Christ you are really nose deep into American Exceptionalism, because the actual math behind shaping to reduce RCS was invented by a Soviet physicist called Pyotr Ufimtsev.

And implemented by which country?

 

[gambit]

Jesus Christ you are really nose deep into American Exceptionalism, because the actual math behind shaping to reduce RCS was invented by a Soviet physicist called Pyotr Ufimtsev.

Utter BS. You think you brought on anything new here?

I have Ufimtsev's book in my home library, buddy. And there is literally nothing in there about how to design anything 'stealth'. Ufimtsev's math was about how waves bounces off surfaces. That is all. Then he formalized the behaviors mathematically.

Here is YOUR ignorance...

Back in the Soviet Union, all academics work, especially in the hard sciences, must pass thru military review to see if there are any military applications, and if there is just a few percentage points possibility, the work is not allowed to publish.

So explain to the silent readers out there how did Lockheed got a hold of Ufimtsev's work?

 

[Tomboy]

Utter BS. You think you brought on anything new here?

I have Ufimtsev's book in my home library, buddy. And there is literally nothing in there about how to design anything 'stealth'. Ufimtsev's math was about how waves bounces off surfaces. That is all. Then he formalized the behaviors mathematically.

Read what I said again carefully. Also what'd you think? Stealth shaping just works magically? Without that "trivial" research how'd you think they'll optimise stealth shaping? It is well known that the software used in Have blue comes from soviet research.

Back in the Soviet Union, all academics work, especially in the hard sciences, must pass thru military review to see if there are any military applications, and if there is just a few percentage points possibility, the work is not allowed to publish.

So explain to the silent readers out there how did Lockheed got a hold of Ufimtsev's work?

I am well aware of this fact, at the time the Soviets thought this research couldn't be practically used. (Which was fair, there is almost no way you are getting a flying brick to fly stability without FBW which at the time is just a distance dream) So the research was allowed to be published.

And implemented by which country?

Well, here's your answer. If your logic is first one to implement is who invented, it then show me any other flying aircraft that is a supersonic tailless blended body and uses AMW. Can't think of any? Well by your logic it's a Chinese invention.

 

[iblini]

Well, here's your answer. Show me any other flying aircraft that is a supersonic tailless blended body and uses AMW. Can't think of any? Well by your logic it's a Chinese invention.

What is AMW stands for?

 

[Tomboy]

What is AMW stands for?

All moving wingtips

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Well, here's your answer. If your logic is first one to implement is who invented, it then show me any other flying aircraft that is a supersonic tailless blended body and uses AMW. Can't think of any? Well by your logic it's a Chinese invention.

Don't troll and give me the answer to my question, Which country/company improve and implemented this formula?

 

[Tomboy]

Don't troll and give me the answer to my question, Which country/company improve and implemented this formula?

You are the one that's trolling, you threw the ragebait (And racist) claim the Chinese is incapable of innovation yet here is the literal proof of innovation. Again, let me ask you: Show me a single aircraft that can go supersonic with no vertical stabilizer or an aircraft with AMW. Plus, if implementing and improving stuff other's made counts then yes sure Lockheed innovated with stealth. Then if that's the case basically your entire argument against the Chinese becomes moot.

 

[gambit]

Read what I said again carefully. Also what'd you think? Stealth shaping just works magically? Without that "trivial" research how'd you think they'll optimise stealth shaping? It is well known that the software used in Have blue comes from soviet research.

I am well aware of this fact, at the time the Soviets thought this research couldn't be practically used. (Which was fair, there is almost no way you are getting a flying brick to fly stability without FBW which at the time is just a distance dream) So the research was allowed to be published.

Bullshid...You know next to nothing about this issue.

The SR -71 was shaped that way partially to reduce RCS. The problem was that Lockheed did not have the predictive math so they did the best they could and hoped their attempt worked.

Reducing the A-12 Blackbird's Cross Section

During the spring of 1959, Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works crewwhich then numbered only 50 - had begun building a full-scale mockup of the proposed aircraft. The mockup was to be tested for its radar cross section by Edgerton, Germeshausen & Grier (EG&G) in cooperation with the Scientific...

www.thesr71blackbird.com

The above source showed how the SR-71 body was radar tested before Ufimtsev's math. What it means is that reflected waves behaviors were already known but we had nothing to deal with said behaviors. Until Ufimtsev came along and unwittingly helped US, not the Soviets.

So yes, the US is the rightful 'father of stealth'. Not the Soviets. Not the Germans.

Well, here's your answer. If your logic is first one to implement is who invented, it then show me any other flying aircraft that is a supersonic tailless blended body and uses AMW. Can't think of any? Well by your logic it's a Chinese invention.

This means you know nothing about airplane design. More like the most you know of aviation is being a passenger in an airliner.

Granted, the line between 'innovation' and 'invention' can be difficult to discern, but we can use prior examples to guide us.

The stirrup is an invention.

The machine gun is an invention.

The airplane is an invention.

In each example above, there are elements of prior inventions, but to be a genuine invention, the device would have to some things that was never done before.

Are there tailless airplanes before? Yes.

Are there supersonic airplanes before? Yes.

What China did was married to the two and gave the final airplane improved flight controls laws. Innovative, yes. But invention? No.

Now, just in case you think I made up the phrase 'flight controls laws', think again...

Airbus Flight Control Laws

If you have a stick that is one meter in length, that is a law, specifically, a hard mechanical law. It means your reach is only one meter.

In the age of fly-by-wire, flight controls laws are software codes that dictates how mechanical devices moves to make possible controlled flights. Ultimately, the hard mechanical laws of hydraulics and flight controls surfaces are the limits of software codes. But within those hard limits, software based flight controls laws offers greater flexibility than cockpit-to-tail mechanical linkages that has governed aviation since the Wright Brothers.

Did everything I said above went 'whoooooshhh' over your head? Of course, it did went over your head. %99 percent of the people do not know that there is such a thing as 'flight controls laws'.

You are treading into areas you know nothing about. Since 2009, I have informed this forum, through its various incarnations, of these technical issues. Long before you came on and thought you have something to show up the Americans. You do not.

So, just post copious amount of pictures and boast about how awesome is the Parade Line Army (PLA). Just do not violate the laws of physics.

 

[Antonius123]

And implemented by which country?

List of China's modern invention :

Modern (1912–present)​

Artemisinin, Tu Youyou, Project 523, Dihydroartemisinin. Derivative of Qing Hao herb originally identified many years earlier by the ancient Chinese medic - Ge Hong. Tested on Tu Youyou herself during the cultural revolution, shown to be effective against P. falciparum, the cause of malaria.

• Electronic cigarette: Hon Lik, a Chinese pharmacist, is credited with the invention of the modern electronic cigarette. In 2003, he came up with the idea of using a piezoelectric ultrasound-emitting element to vaporise a pressurized jet of liquid containing nicotine diluted in a propylene glycol solution. This design produces a smoke-like vapour that can be inhaled and provides a vehicle for nicotine delivery into the bloodstream via the lungs. He also proposed using propylene glycol to dilute nicotine and placing it in a disposable plastic cartridge which serves as a liquid reservoir and mouthpiece
• Generation IV reactor: China was the first country to operate a demonstration generation-IV nuclear reactor, the HTR-PM in 2021. The reactor subsequently became the first fourth generation reactor to enter commercial service in 2023.
• Non-invasive prenatal diagnostic testing for Down Syndrome: Previously, women underwent invasive testing such as amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling (CVS). This new maternal blood test has the potential to reduce the number of women referred for invasive testing for Down syndrome by 98 percent. Developed by Chinese researchers in Hong Kong in 2008, this is hailed as a breakthrough.
• Passenger drone: The world's first passenger drone, a drone capable of carrying human cargo, Ehang 184 was unveiled at the Computer Electronics Show (CES) 2016 by Chinese entrepreneurs.
• Synthetic bovine insulin: In 1965, Chinese scientists synthesized bovine insulin, with the "same crystalline form and biological activities as natural insulin."
• Stem cell educator therapy: Chinese and US researchers have produced remarkable results for this new treatment of obtaining stem cells from human cord blood to "re-educate" misbehaving immune cells. This result was published in the open-access journal BMC Medicine in January 2012, and offers hope for Type 1 diabetics and potentially may also be used to treat other auto-immune diseases if the approach lives up to early promise.
• Quantum communication satellite: Launched in 2016, QUESS, or "Micius," is the world's first quantum communication satellite. It enables secure communication using quantum key distribution (QKD) and entangled photons, transmitted over 1,200 km, demonstrating the potential for unbreakable encryption.

List of Chinese inventions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Antonius123]

Bullshid...You know next to nothing about this issue.

The SR -71 was shaped that way partially to reduce RCS. The problem was that Lockheed did not have the predictive math so they did the best they could and hoped their attempt worked.

Reducing the A-12 Blackbird's Cross Section

During the spring of 1959, Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works crewwhich then numbered only 50 - had begun building a full-scale mockup of the proposed aircraft. The mockup was to be tested for its radar cross section by Edgerton, Germeshausen & Grier (EG&G) in cooperation with the Scientific...

www.thesr71blackbird.com

The above source showed how the SR-71 body was radar tested before Ufimtsev's math. What it means is that reflected waves behaviors were already known but we had nothing to deal with said behaviors. Until Ufimtsev came along and unwittingly helped US, not the Soviets.

So yes, the US is the rightful 'father of stealth'. Not the Soviets. Not the Germans.


This means you know nothing about airplane design. More like the most you know of aviation is being a passenger in an airliner.

Granted, the line between 'innovation' and 'invention' can be difficult to discern, but we can use prior examples to guide us.

The stirrup is an invention.

The machine gun is an invention.

The airplane is an invention.

In each example above, there are elements of prior inventions, but to be a genuine invention, the device would have to some things that was never done before.

Are there tailless airplanes before? Yes.

Are there supersonic airplanes before? Yes.

What China did was married to the two and gave the final airplane improved flight controls laws. Innovative, yes. But invention? No.

Now, just in case you think I made up the phrase 'flight controls laws', think again...

Airbus Flight Control Laws

If you have a stick that is one meter in length, that is a law, specifically, a hard mechanical law. It means your reach is only one meter.

In the age of fly-by-wire, flight controls laws are software codes that dictates how mechanical devices moves to make possible controlled flights. Ultimately, the hard mechanical laws of hydraulics and flight controls surfaces are the limits of software codes. But within those hard limits, software based flight controls laws offers greater flexibility than cockpit-to-tail mechanical linkages that has governed aviation since the Wright Brothers.

Did everything I said above went 'whoooooshhh' over your head? Of course, it did went over your head. %99 percent of the people do not know that there is such a thing as 'flight controls laws'.

You are treading into areas you know nothing about. Since 2009, I have informed this forum, through its various incarnations, of these technical issues. Long before you came on and thought you have something to show up the Americans. You do not.

So, just post copious amount of pictures and boast about how awesome is the Parade Line Army (PLA). Just do not violate the laws of physics.

Would you care to explain the 4 millions INVENTION Patents produced by China in year 2023?

If China has no modern invention, then how come China in year 2023 owned 4 million invention patents, which is the biggest in the world surpass US?

China becomes first country with over 4 million domestic invention patents

China owned about 4.02 million of domestic valid invention patents by the end of 2023, up 22.4 percent year on year, making it the first country in the world to hold more than 4 million valid domestic invention patents, the National Intellectual Property Administration (NIPA) said on Tuesday.

news.cgtn.com

China National Intellectual Property Administration What's New Chinese Invention Patents Leap Over 4 Million

As of the end of 2023, China (note: all numbers in this piece not including Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan) owned 4.015 million domestic invention patents - becoming the first country in the world in ...

english.cnipa.gov.cn

 

[iblini]

Bullshid...You know next to nothing about this issue.

The SR -71 was shaped that way partially to reduce RCS. The problem was that Lockheed did not have the predictive math so they did the best they could and hoped their attempt worked.

Reducing the A-12 Blackbird's Cross Section

During the spring of 1959, Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works crewwhich then numbered only 50 - had begun building a full-scale mockup of the proposed aircraft. The mockup was to be tested for its radar cross section by Edgerton, Germeshausen & Grier (EG&G) in cooperation with the Scientific...

www.thesr71blackbird.com

The above source showed how the SR-71 body was radar tested before Ufimtsev's math. What it means is that reflected waves behaviors were already known but we had nothing to deal with said behaviors. Until Ufimtsev came along and unwittingly helped US, not the Soviets.

So yes, the US is the rightful 'father of stealth'. Not the Soviets. Not the Germans.


This means you know nothing about airplane design. More like the most you know of aviation is being a passenger in an airliner.

Granted, the line between 'innovation' and 'invention' can be difficult to discern, but we can use prior examples to guide us.

The stirrup is an invention.

The machine gun is an invention.

The airplane is an invention.

In each example above, there are elements of prior inventions, but to be a genuine invention, the device would have to some things that was never done before.

Are there tailless airplanes before? Yes.

Are there supersonic airplanes before? Yes.

What China did was married to the two and gave the final airplane improved flight controls laws. Innovative, yes. But invention? No.

Now, just in case you think I made up the phrase 'flight controls laws', think again...

Airbus Flight Control Laws

If you have a stick that is one meter in length, that is a law, specifically, a hard mechanical law. It means your reach is only one meter.

In the age of fly-by-wire, flight controls laws are software codes that dictates how mechanical devices moves to make possible controlled flights. Ultimately, the hard mechanical laws of hydraulics and flight controls surfaces are the limits of software codes. But within those hard limits, software based flight controls laws offers greater flexibility than cockpit-to-tail mechanical linkages that has governed aviation since the Wright Brothers.

Did everything I said above went 'whoooooshhh' over your head? Of course, it did went over your head. %99 percent of the people do not know that there is such a thing as 'flight controls laws'.

You are treading into areas you know nothing about. Since 2009, I have informed this forum, through its various incarnations, of these technical issues. Long before you came on and thought you have something to show up the Americans. You do not.

So, just post copious amount of pictures and boast about how awesome is the Parade Line Army (PLA). Just do not violate the laws of physics.

Vietnam old maga man and an pax American worshipper, it's near cult level
and rdy to bring that with you into the soil soon.

 

[CarterA259]

Looks like even the the Star-Spangled Banner painted on American planes is stealth design.

 

[Tomboy]

Bullshid...You know next to nothing about this issue.

The SR -71 was shaped that way partially to reduce RCS. The problem was that Lockheed did not have the predictive math so they did the best they could and hoped their attempt worked.

Reducing the A-12 Blackbird's Cross Section

During the spring of 1959, Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works crewwhich then numbered only 50 - had begun building a full-scale mockup of the proposed aircraft. The mockup was to be tested for its radar cross section by Edgerton, Germeshausen & Grier (EG&G) in cooperation with the Scientific...

www.thesr71blackbird.com

The above source showed how the SR-71 body was radar tested before Ufimtsev's math. What it means is that reflected waves behaviors were already known but we had nothing to deal with said behaviors. Until Ufimtsev came along and unwittingly helped US, not the Soviets.

You already admitted to the fact that without Ufmetsev's research stealth today would still be in the stone age of "eyeballing it" and empirical data. The fact still is the soviets basically invented the entire theoretical framework for which is the backbone of modern stealth as we know it.

Now, just in case you think I made up the phrase 'flight controls laws', think again...

Airbus Flight Control Laws

If you have a stick that is one meter in length, that is a law, specifically, a hard mechanical law. It means your reach is only one meter.

In the age of fly-by-wire, flight controls laws are software codes that dictates how mechanical devices moves to make possible controlled flights. Ultimately, the hard mechanical laws of hydraulics and flight controls surfaces are the limits of software codes. But within those hard limits, software based flight controls laws offers greater flexibility than cockpit-to-tail mechanical linkages that has governed aviation since the Wright Brothers.

Did everything I said above went 'whoooooshhh' over your head? Of course, it did went over your head. %99 percent of the people do not know that there is such a thing as 'flight controls laws'.

You are treading into areas you know nothing about. Since 2009, I have informed this forum, through its various incarnations, of these technical issues. Long before you came on and thought you have something to show up the Americans. You do not.

So, just post copious amount of pictures and boast about how awesome is the Parade Line Army (PLA). Just do not violate the laws of physics.

Truly a man of understatement. I'll bet your understanding of flight control laws is at best "it exists", why don't you do some actual reading about the difficulties of getting an AMW to work at all on a flying aircraft. Nonlinear action that is coupled with all three axes, I mean as knowledgeable as you claim to be surely you must know the difficulties in getting that to work reliably, right? Especially on a tailless supersonic aircraft. Also surely, you'll know about the structural difficulties of making sure it wouldn't rip the surfaces right off the wings when deployed. Solving aeroelasticity issue that comes with AMW is another thing to be done, the latter paper shows AMW can causes an extreme amount of wing flutter that can cause "tiny" issues like ripping the wings off the aircraft. I guess in your opinion solving these problems is just child's play or something.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...formance-of-tailless-flying-wing-aircraft.pdf

带全动翼尖飞翼布局的颤振规律

qtwl.xml-journal.net

By your logic of "Well it uses digital flight control so nothing new". Not all FCS is made equally, by your logic ChatGPT is at best an incremental improvement upon a 1990s chatbot. Or do you claim just because AMW rely on the same basic aerodynamics so suddenly now all a copy of whatever came first? In fact, if you read the research you'd understand how differently AMW works when compared to more conventional control surfaces and the difficulty in writing a viable flight law for it that doesn't involve ripping the wings off.

PS: Don't even start about how getting something with no tails to fly stable supersonically is trivial or "nothing new"

Now why don't you go back to where you came from and pray that NGAD doesn't get delayed for the third time in a row.