Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Cookie Monster]

I think we need to somehow add J16 based Growler variant (I know wishful thinking) or convert JF17B as dedicated EW escorts along with HavSOJs

IMO...in the past and in present times...Pakistan does well defensively against India...
...any Indian misadventure into Pakistan will be costly.

However Pakistan's offensive capabilities remain limited...
...yes Pakistan can strike India at stand off ranges..or even deeper if needed(air intrusion or ballistic missiles)...that's an offensive capability for battles...I wouldn't consider it an offensive capability in a war.
...and that's not to bash on the military or anything. It's natural...Pakistan is much smaller in terms of population, resources, economy...and has some geographical disadvantages like lack of strategic depth...
...so a defensive approach...with A2AD and an offensive/defensive type of doctrine is practically the only option to keep deterrence(speaking conventionally in absence of nukes with MAD type of scenario).

In order for Pakistan to gain a clear upper hand...for carrying out sustained offense in a war(not just battles) while keeping in mind the inherent size differences...would be through a powerful(even if still smaller) economy and a powerful air force.
...imagine how the current 2025 skirmish could've gone if Pakistan had a strong economy...not teetering on default...not begging IMF...with a decent amount of reserves and not a lot of loans...well established industries that can switch to war footing...
...and naturally that translating to an even stronger military overall...but let's just consider air force(the second aspect of what I mentioned above other than economy)..
...PAF(with current capabilities) just having a more numerous amount of jets(let's just say more J10s, more JF17 block 3s, and a couple of squadrons of J16 growlers).

With a strong economy and more number of jets. PAF would be able to carry out sustained attacks(even if it took losses in a drawn out war). IAF would be hopelessly outmatched(as it was)...and PAF would eventually decimate it to the point of non existence(or at least make it very much non effective in its support for IA).
..this would free up PA to fully go on the offensive with full air support while IA would be without much air support. This would be key...to then seize some key strategic points... geographically push just enough...to gain geographic advantage(higher peaks, key routes, defensible geographic features, even the possibility of settling Kashmir by force)...all the while being careful not to push it to the brink of MAD...
...these rather shallow thrusts and a complete domination of airspace...
...plus the world pressure due to nuclear war threat would bring India/Pak towards another ceasefire.

...this is where certain portions of land can be returned as a bargaining chip to sign long term agreements.

Note the similarities here with what Israel has done in the past to fight and essentially secure/pacify its much larger neighbors. It never enjoyed numerical superiority(army or airforce) but mostly managed to have complete air dominance...which was of immense use to secure victory...and of course all this backed by a lot of money.

@Oscar @Yasser76

 

[Goenitz]

IMO...in the past and in present times...Pakistan does well defensively against India...
...any Indian misadventure into Pakistan will be costly.

However Pakistan's offensive capabilities remain limited...
...yes Pakistan can strike India at stand off ranges..or even deeper if needed(air intrusion or ballistic missiles)...that's an offensive capability for battles...I wouldn't consider it an offensive capability in a war.
...and that's not to bash on the military or anything. It's natural...Pakistan is much smaller in terms of population, resources, economy...and has some geographical disadvantages like lack of strategic depth...
...so a defensive approach...with A2AD and an offensive/defensive type of doctrine is practically the only option to keep deterrence(speaking conventionally in absence of nukes with MAD type of scenario).

In order for Pakistan to gain a clear upper hand...for carrying out sustained offense in a war(not just battles) while keeping in mind the inherent size differences...would be through a powerful(even if still smaller) economy and a powerful air force.
...imagine how the current 2025 skirmish could've gone if Pakistan had a strong economy...not teetering on default...not begging IMF...with a decent amount of reserves and not a lot of loans. Well established industries that can switch to war footing...
...and naturally that translating to an even stronger military overall...but let's just consider air force(the second aspect of what I mentioned above other than economy)..
...PAF(with current capabilities) just having a more numerous amount of jets(let's just say more J10s, more JF17 block 3s, and a couple of squadrons of J16 growlers).

With a strong economy and more number of jets. PAF would be able to carry out sustained attacks(even if it took losses in a drawn out war). IAF would be hopelessly outmatched(as it was)...and PAF would eventually decimate it to the point of non existence(or at least make it very much non effective in its support for IA).
..this would free up PA to fully go on the offensive with full air support while IA would be without much air support. This would be key...to then seize some key strategic points... geographically push just enough...to gain geographic advantage(higher peaks, key routes, defensible geographic features, even the possibility of settling Kashmir by force)...all the while being careful not to push it to the brink of MAD...
...these rather shallow thrusts and a complete domination of airspace...
...plus the world pressure due to nuclear war threat would bring India/Pak towards another ceasefire.

...this is where certain portions of land can be returned as a bargaining chip to sign long term agreements.

Note the similarities here with what Israel has done in the past to fight and essentially secure/pacify its much larger neighbors. It never enjoyed numerical superiority(army or airforce) but mostly managed to have complete air dominance...which was of immense use to secure victory...and of course all this backed by a lot of money.

crux
Financial stability/resources: to buy more weapons and focus on borders (E&W)
Political stability: to ensure there is no internal sabotage or hired gun that can damage our critical resources. Such as armed quadcopters for air assets or any new deep air base in KPK or Balochistan remains vulnerable.
Also, a more focused fight on the diplomatic front and engagement with int media.

 

[KingQamaR]

A master-class , MMW radar, stealth profile, BVR missiles, are a step ahead of India. We saw some of that in the Pakistans J-10 ability to destroy French Rafale aircraft. If true that China has placed a J-35 squadron in Pakistan, that is a year ahead of planned deliveries and should give food for thought to India to further aggravate the current situation. If China sells its domestic PL-15 or its newer PL-21 missile, India needs to rethink its overall actions if it is thinking of attacking Pakistan again. After a heavy “restraint” drumming from PAK military gave them. In my opinion this is just a likely subtle “ DO NOT TRY” message to indIan’s.

 

[StormBreaker]

What’s the case here?

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[r3alist]

Generally not been popular


Is he wrong?

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[Master Chief]

I just posted two of his major error in predicting conflict in just few weeks time. I quote AI because it is something that I understand enough to tell when a person is completely bullshitting.

If he indeed said that "Modi could not control an air war", then I would argue that his prediction was at least partially correct. He perhaps did not expect an air war initially because he held out some semblance of hope that India's war planners - whom you will recall had been given a free hand or five by Modi - would not engage so suicidally with our superior air force.

I think your bias is shining though here and you simply want him to be wrong because he dares to suggest Indian fallibility.

It is this stubbornness that sets India apart from professional militaries that you procure a lot of training and equipment from, and perhaps seek to emulate, like Israel or Russia. Brute numbers alone will not win you any more battles against Pakistan - that era has long gone.

Carry on ignoring him please.

 

[Goenitz]

What’s the case here?

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not possible.. India has to accept IEA on a diplomatic level. Plus, it wd be a good target practice through unconventional means by Pakistan. Longer routes through Iran, where they have already soured the relations.
The real threat is handing over FPV optical fibre drones TTP, which can target our airbases.

 

[r3alist]

Carry on ignoring him please.

Basically this, I mean they should potentially jail him for being in anti-national.


At the end of the day cover his utility to Pakistanis was simply he gives a bit of an impartial assessment of what Pakistan might be up to, I'm not really aware of any other English speaking YouTube channels out there for this


Indian military strategic thought and culture these days simply seems to just boil down to okay but our GDP is bigger, that's it, always ends up there


The other aspect, is that if you digest and absorb everything that he says, it essentially points to Indian strategic thinking...m really just misinterpreting the entire world, yes that bad,

Their hodgepodge of military procurements preclude them from having a modern and potent doctrine, consequently they would have to almost REdesign from the ground up. That's actually quite a lot to take in


So sure, lock him up for being anti international

 

[FuturePAF]

India in Panic: Pakistan China and Afghanistan Unite to tackle security challenges!​

A good move from China and Pakistan. It's increasingly looking like like Pak-China vs Bharat...

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Pakistan really needs to come up with a unified plan with China on how to work with them.

 

[RescueRanger]

You cannot make this stuff up!

Not only have the Indian NIA (Their version of our FIA) arrested SIX members of the BJP IT cell for visiting Pakistan and vlogging about it.

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Some Indians are now using an old interview to claim veteran Indian journalist Karan Thapar is an ISI Spy.

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[Developereo]

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This is a touchy subject.

I am hesitant to equate Pakistan with Islam. Just because some Hindus in India reject Indian Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, etc. does not mean we should reject our Pakistani Hindus or other non-Muslims.

We should never let India or anyone else define who we are as a nation.

 

[StormBreaker]

not possible.. India has to accept IEA on a diplomatic level. Plus, it wd be a good target practice through unconventional means by Pakistan. Longer routes through Iran, where they have already soured the relations.
The real threat is FPV optical fibre drones handed to TTP, which can target our airbases.

Hehehe ‘unconventional’

 

[That_Guy]

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Breaking: modi has revealed himself to be the Decepticon leader Megatron!

He has declared, "those damn Autobots are hiding in Pakistan, probably where Osama bin Laden was hiding! I'll get them yet, just you watch!"

Indian media is calling for all out war against the dastardly autobots!

 

[StormBreaker]

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If true (although I don’t think it is), why do we even need to spend such huge amount on missiles that are inferior to our current lot?

 

[RescueRanger]

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If true (although I don’t think it is), why do we even need to spend such huge amount on missiles that are inferior to our current lot?

Trump like to make deals. How about we swap them for one of our secret MOABs.