POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

[PakistaniDefender]

Posters need to relax, take a step back, and reassess......rather than slitting their wrists on the drop of a hat.
Our AD did one hell of a job defending our airspace from bindian on slot.
The attack with surveillance drones/loitering munitions was more to overwhelm our AD assets than anything else.
I was worried that our AD would deplete all their anti-aircraft missiles trying to shoot down the drones, but was presently surprised to see our AD units use Orikon twin-barrel 35mm gun that is equipped with a Fire Control Unit (Skyguard) that detects and tracks air targets up to 20km and computes the firing data, along with their Chinese variant known as the Type 90. Its the perfect weapon to shoot down drones, helicopters, and cruise missiles, particularly when used with their AHEAD (Airburst) ammunition, is highly regarded and characterized by its high precision and effectiveness against a variety of air threats. The AHEAD ammunition allows for fine-tuning of hit and kill probabilities based on the target type.......our AD units have had them for decades and r very proficient on them. Hence the reason for 80+ bindian drones being shot down with minimal loss.
After the failure of their drone assault, the bindians, after 200 hrs on May 10th, took the extreme step and tried to take out our airfields and some other facilities with brahmos supersonic cruise missiles. bindians fired volley after volley of these cruise missiles. 10 -15 missiles per target......that's a huge number.
Our AD engagement and hit rate were 100 % in most cases. The shoot-down rate between soft kill and hard kill was 50 -50.
The casualties caused at Balori AF were a cheap shot after the ceasefire was announced, and what did the damage was the debris of the destroyed missiles to aircrew working in a hanger, which was not a "HAS" hanger.

All in all, a job very well done

I think there was a damage in Shehbaz as well. Also, how did our Fatah performed against their ADs??

 

[Vkdindian1]

Aircraft hangers, parked awacs, tankers, runways.. radars, aircraft on the ground.. lots of targets… damage will not be known unless Pak has evidence and releases it when the situation has calmed down…

True. They were all decimated to the ground.

Miraculously, nothing could be captured by any satellites and shown as a proof.
It could be some Vedic technology that bhakts talk about and secretly used by India to repair everything before anyone could see it.

 

[Baadil]

The one worrying thing for Pak is India now knows Pak will retaliate in a big way. That means when they decide to do something stupid again they will be more prepared and might put in place traps to hurt Pak forces.

India wants to control the escalation ladder, what Pak needs to do is make the retaliation so costly for India so it makes them think 10 times before trying to do something crazy again.

Pakistan should work to build and consolidate non-nuclear asymmetric escalation capacity. The most practical and readily available seems to be cyber warfare and the Indians may have received a trailer of this in the form of alleged Sino-Pak cooperation in this domain during the recent heightening of hostilities. This is of course aside from Pakistan’s alleged traditional reliance on insurgent groups but the potency and practicality of such an option seems to no longer be sufficient for the Pakistani Intelligence apparatus.

 

[Baadil]

True. They were all decimated to the ground.

Miraculously, nothing could be captured by any satellites and shown as a proof.
It could be some Vedic technology that bhakts talk about and secretly used by India to repair everything before anyone could see it.

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Here are images of India Udhampur runaway damage.

lol at NYT posting 12th may images after 2 days of repair work. The runaway damage of India airbase was more than any Pak airbase.

At the very least there seems to be evidence that Udhampur was attacked by Pakistan.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Did a piece with the Think Tank I am working (for another month or so) and I am surprised no one here talk about how to deconflict and rebalance the strategic implication of this strike here, which IMO is more important than who use what where.

We can talk about how PAF J-10 shoot down a Rafale all day but if we don't talk about how India effectively breaking away from the status quo and attack Pakistani military structure "unprovoked" (As in not being attacked locally). That is a bigger issue because if you can't find a way to rebalance the status quo, that give India the mindset that it's okay to attack your military. Losing that balance is a lot worse, because India may lose a Rafale or 2, but if they think they can attack you with impunity, they will do it the next time even if that mean they will lose 1, 2, 4 or 40 Rafale.

This is because most of the members are busy comparing and analysing the skirmish at tactical level. Bullet to bullet and missile to missile.

This skirmish created a complete shift in the dynamics.

The attacks carried in 2019 in the aftermath of Pulwama was against a single target in Kashmir.
This time many targets were engaged all over and the ensuing battle was at much higher level with possibility of escalation all the time.
This has changed the starting point and shifted it higher up the escalation ladder.
Next time it is likely to be against military targets directly.

Practically, it sounds like a tinderbox.

 

[hussain0216]

I think you giving PAF too much credit.
What did IAF aim for and didn't achieve?
And PAF mission objectives what they achieve?

Either PAF was superb
Or IAF was utterly useless

Both those statements are true

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

The one worrying thing for Pak is India now knows Pak will retaliate in a big way. That means when they decide to do something stupid again they will be more prepared and might put in place traps to hurt Pak forces.

India wants to control the escalation ladder, what Pak needs to do is make the retaliation so costly for India so it makes them think 10 times before trying to do something crazy again.

This time Pakistan did well. Didn't loss any airfract and airbase damage was minor. India lost $3 billion hardware.

But $3 billion for India is just 4% of their defence budget. Which is why this game of tit for tit favour India. Pakistan need to go beyond that, all out war where everything is on target. They have 10x more to loss in civilian infrastructure. If India doesn't back down on IWT then final war is coming.

 

[Liquidator]

Did a piece with the Think Tank I am working (for another month or so) and I am surprised no one here talk about how to deconflict and rebalance the strategic implication of this strike here, which IMO is more important than who use what where.

We can talk about how PAF J-10 shoot down a Rafale all day but if we don't talk about how India effectively breaking away from the status quo and attack Pakistani military structure "unprovoked" (As in not being attacked locally). That is a bigger issue because if you can't find a way to rebalance the status quo, that give India the mindset that it's okay to attack your military. Losing that balance is a lot worse, because India may lose a Rafale or 2, but if they think they can attack you with impunity, they will do it the next time even if that mean they will lose 1, 2, 4 or 40 Rafale.

Great

Indians won't have an airforce left soon. Other than the mighty Tejas that is yet to see action. You are happy, we are happy.

Win win for both sides.

 

[najamiqbal]

I think you giving PAF too much credit.
What did IAF aim for and didn't achieve?
And PAF mission objectives what they achieve?

You're right to ask about objectives — and that's exactly where the contrast becomes obvious. The IAF aimed to project superiority with preemptive strikes, but multiple high-value targets survived or were only partially damaged. Meanwhile, PAF’s objective was defensive denial and deterrence — and by most neutral assessments, that was achieved. You can downplay it, but if one side enters with dominance in mind and walks away with key losses, that speaks for itself. Tactical surprises aren't 'too much credit' — they're called results.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Indian Mass Delusion Syndrome on Full Display
What leads people to celebrate defeat as victory?
Hua Bin • May 24, 2025

Since I wrote “the DeepSeek moment of modern air combat”, more details have come out about the battlefield outcome from the May 7 and 8 Pakistan India clash.

In addition to the 3 Rafales, 1 Su-30, 1 Mig-29 and 1 Heron UAV covered in my essay, Pakistan also shot down an Indian French-made Mirage 2000. Pakistan Air Force destroyed 2 batteries of the Russia-made S400 air defense system (the command center and one radar unit) with China-made CM400akg hypersonic land-attack missiles launched from JF-17, a fighter jet produced jointly with China.

Since this is the first truly high-tech large scale air combat in the 21st century and the first beyond-visual-range (BVR) air war, military experts and commentators are studying the battle in minute detail. I plan to write another short piece on the tech behind the Pakistan victory soon.

However, another aspect of the war has come to the forefront immediately after the war. That is the mass delusion indulged by the Indian government and press about the conflict. Rather than acknowledging its setback and reviewing its strategy, tactics and battlefield lessons, the Indians are trying to mask their defeat through outright fabrications and lies on a massive scale. It is going so far as to claim the clash an unqualified victory.

Indian government, its TV media (400+ channels), and social media are filled with made-up battlefield successes, destruction in Pakistan, and superiority of the Indian military. The wild claims include –

• No Indian aircrafts were lost and no damage to S400 (though wreckage of a Rafale jet was filmed with its tail number and two burial ceremonies were held for Indian soldiers operating S400 systems. Indian report said they were shot during border skirmishes, which defies any common sense)
• Indian air force shot down 8 Pakistan F-16 jets and 4 JF-17 fighters (no US-made F-16 even took off during the conflict as the US forbid Pakistan to use F-16 in conflicts with India)
• Karachi, the largest port city in Pakistan, was firebombed by Indian navy and one third of the city was destroyed (the footage shown on Indian TVs was later fact-checked to be Israeli’s bombing campaigns in Palestine)
• A coup d’etat happened in Pakistan and the army chief was arrested
• A retired Indian air force marshal claims the Chinese air force cannot use the China-made weapons as well as Pakistan so India has nothing to worry about a conflict with China

Right after the air war, the Indian government called in diplomatic staff from 70+ countries to announce its heroic victories; Modi went on a tour of the frontline and announced a 10-day national celebration. The Indian military was tasked to go on a national tour to share their battlefield successes with patriotic citizens.

When American and French officials confirmed some of the battlefield losses suffered by India, the Indian media, led by the famous BJP promoter and TV personality Palki Sharma, went into a frenzied attack on the inferiorities of US and European weaponry. They bombasted Trump for claiming to broach a ceasefire between the two belligerents. Their argument is India would have dealt an even bigger defeat to Pakistan without the ceasefire meddling.

To this day, most Indians are under the delusion that the Indian military has dealt Pakistan a deathly blow and emerged totally victorious and unscathed.

While shrill and high octane “news” reporting is par for the course in India, and BJP, under Modi, has long shaped and exploited wide-spread jingoistic Hindu nationalist fervour, the Bollywood-like mass delusion is over the top and probably without a parallel in military history.

It is interesting to explore what lies behind such mass hysteria that is completely divorced from reality and what this means for India and its population.

A quick AI search tells you the medical or psychological term for “self-fooling” is self-deception.

Self-deception refers to the process of misleading oneself to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. It involves cognitive biases, denial, or rationalization to maintain certain beliefs or avoid uncomfortable truths.

While not a formal medical diagnosis, self-deception is studied in psychology and psychiatry as part of defense mechanisms (e.g., denial or repression) that protect the ego from anxiety or distress.

I think this perfectly captures the psychological reasons behind the wildly delusional Indian national mood and character.

Since BJP took power, Modi and his cronies have intentionally fostered a ultra-nationalistic narrative about India’s greatness and Hindu superiority.

• India has launched unprecedented repressions of Muslims and deprived the Kashmir region (a Muslim majority region) its long-held autonomous status.
• India has embraced the fantasy to replace China as the world’s manufacturing center and top economic growth engine by opportunistically aligning with the US and the west. At the same time, it is exploring the Russia Ukraine war to enrich itself by selling Russian oil at inflated price to the west.
• India has boasted its economy has surpassed UK and France and will join the US and China in no time as the largest economies in the world while it is still behind Japan and Germany. To inflate its GDP, India has changed its GDP accounting method twice in the last 10 years and started to count cow dung as part of GDP as agricultural inputs. Grok estimates Indian GDP calculation included the value of cow dung and other manure at $4.7 billion in 2023.
• India has attempted to bolster its military by purchasing a hodge podge suite of brand-name weaponries from France, Russia, the US and Israel. India spent 7.8 billion Euros in 2015 to purchase 36 Rafale fighters, or 220 million Euros per jet, making it the most expensive fighter jet ever sold by that time. There was so much corruption by Modi’s cronies in the deal that Wikipedia has an entire entry dedicated to the controversy. Even after the corruption case was exposed, India decided to double down and spent anther $7.4 billion to buy 26 Rafale jets for its navy just this past April. That is a staggering price tag of $285 million per Rafale, a new world record.

This Pakistan India air war was initially intended by India to show off its new found muscle until it has its ass handed back by Pakistan.

Similarly, the Modi regime announced with big fanfare its Make In India campaign in 2015 to replace China as the world’s manufacturing powerhouse. It targeted manufacturing to reach 25% GDP by 2025. Instead, Indian manufacturing GDP was 13% by 2024, down from 17% in 2010. In contrast, according to CSIS, value-added industrial output accounted for nearly 40% China’s GDP (vs. 18% in the US). Given China’s GDP is 5 times of India, that means China’s manufacturing GDP alone is 2 times as big as India’s total GDP or 16 times India’s manufacturing output.

Another interesting statistic – in Paris 2024 Olympics, India won a grand total of 6 medals – 1 silver and 5 bronze, ranking 71st among the 84 countries with medal count. This is India’s third best medal haul after 2020 and 2012, according to Wikipedia. The world’s most populous country ranks between Lithuania (70th, population 2.8 million) and Moldova (72nd population 2.4 million). India’s Gold medal haul (0) was lower than Hong Kong (2). The US and China (ex. Hong Kong) each won 40 Gold medals, and 126 and 91 total medals respectively.

This wild gap between India’s self-perception (or should we say self-delusion) as a great power and the cold reality of its economic and social backwardness is the reason behind the mass delusion.

It’s a sad combination of inferiority complex and unfounded sense of grandeur.

There was a famous character called Ah Q in an early 20th century literature work in China. Ah Q is a loser but cannot accept his lowly station in life. So he goes around telling himself he is better than the other people around him, often saying “I was beaten by my bastard son” after losing a fight. In the end, he was framed for a robbery and sentenced to death. When he was signing his death warrant by drawing a circle (since he couldn’t write), he was more upset about the circle not drawn perfectly than the death sentence.

Indians didn’t succeed in copying China’s economic success. Instead, the Indians have fully adopted Ah Q’s delusional “spiritual victory” method of coping with failures and humiliations.

The Indian celebration of their imagined success perfectly reflects Ah Q’s delusional defiance when he tried to sing a heroic song on the road to his execution. He couldn’t sing with his wobbly voice at that point, instead weakly uttered a phrase commonly used by criminals before execution, ”In another 20 years, I shall be another stout young fellow”.

The Indian media obsession with spectacles mirror Ah Q’s morbid disappointment at the crowd at his execution – they were bored because he didn’t sing properly and lamented that he was shot instead of beheaded, denying them the “entertainment” of a decapitation .

India’s celebration of its defeat at the hand of Pakistan encapsulates Ah Q’s entire existence – a blend of farce and tragedy, where self-deception persists until the bullet ends his life.

On a higher level, the dishonest propaganda by the Indian government and media is an information war against its own population. Few foreigners believe the Indian official narrative. The Indian government and media has completely lost any credibility at this point. So the real target of the disinformation campaign is the Indian population itself.

A nation without basic intellectual honesty and suffering from cognitive dissonance will not rise. Instead it will be the butt of jokes by late night comedians.

In the so-called “largest democracy in the world” where the rule is one Rupiah one vote, Modi is resorting to the lowest level of “democratic” playbook – keep the population dumb and get their votes through lies.

Indian Mass Delusion Syndrome on Full Display

What leads people to celebrate defeat as victory?

www.unz.com

 

[Vkdindian1]

Indian Mass Delusion Syndrome on Full Display
What leads people to celebrate defeat as victory?
Hua Bin • May 24, 2025

Since I wrote “the DeepSeek moment of modern air combat”, more details have come out about the battlefield outcome from the May 7 and 8 Pakistan India clash.

In addition to the 3 Rafales, 1 Su-30, 1 Mig-29 and 1 Heron UAV covered in my essay, Pakistan also shot down an Indian French-made Mirage 2000. Pakistan Air Force destroyed 2 batteries of the Russia-made S400 air defense system (the command center and one radar unit) with China-made CM400akg hypersonic land-attack missiles launched from JF-17, a fighter jet produced jointly with China.

Since this is the first truly high-tech large scale air combat in the 21st century and the first beyond-visual-range (BVR) air war, military experts and commentators are studying the battle in minute detail. I plan to write another short piece on the tech behind the Pakistan victory soon.

However, another aspect of the war has come to the forefront immediately after the war. That is the mass delusion indulged by the Indian government and press about the conflict. Rather than acknowledging its setback and reviewing its strategy, tactics and battlefield lessons, the Indians are trying to mask their defeat through outright fabrications and lies on a massive scale. It is going so far as to claim the clash an unqualified victory.

Indian government, its TV media (400+ channels), and social media are filled with made-up battlefield successes, destruction in Pakistan, and superiority of the Indian military. The wild claims include –

• No Indian aircrafts were lost and no damage to S400 (though wreckage of a Rafale jet was filmed with its tail number and two burial ceremonies were held for Indian soldiers operating S400 systems. Indian report said they were shot during border skirmishes, which defies any common sense)
• Indian air force shot down 8 Pakistan F-16 jets and 4 JF-17 fighters (no US-made F-16 even took off during the conflict as the US forbid Pakistan to use F-16 in conflicts with India)
• Karachi, the largest port city in Pakistan, was firebombed by Indian navy and one third of the city was destroyed (the footage shown on Indian TVs was later fact-checked to be Israeli’s bombing campaigns in Palestine)
• A coup d’etat happened in Pakistan and the army chief was arrested
• A retired Indian air force marshal claims the Chinese air force cannot use the China-made weapons as well as Pakistan so India has nothing to worry about a conflict with China

Right after the air war, the Indian government called in diplomatic staff from 70+ countries to announce its heroic victories; Modi went on a tour of the frontline and announced a 10-day national celebration. The Indian military was tasked to go on a national tour to share their battlefield successes with patriotic citizens.

When American and French officials confirmed some of the battlefield losses suffered by India, the Indian media, led by the famous BJP promoter and TV personality Palki Sharma, went into a frenzied attack on the inferiorities of US and European weaponry. They bombasted Trump for claiming to broach a ceasefire between the two belligerents. Their argument is India would have dealt an even bigger defeat to Pakistan without the ceasefire meddling.

To this day, most Indians are under the delusion that the Indian military has dealt Pakistan a deathly blow and emerged totally victorious and unscathed.

While shrill and high octane “news” reporting is par for the course in India, and BJP, under Modi, has long shaped and exploited wide-spread jingoistic Hindu nationalist fervour, the Bollywood-like mass delusion is over the top and probably without a parallel in military history.

It is interesting to explore what lies behind such mass hysteria that is completely divorced from reality and what this means for India and its population.

A quick AI search tells you the medical or psychological term for “self-fooling” is self-deception.

Self-deception refers to the process of misleading oneself to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. It involves cognitive biases, denial, or rationalization to maintain certain beliefs or avoid uncomfortable truths.

While not a formal medical diagnosis, self-deception is studied in psychology and psychiatry as part of defense mechanisms (e.g., denial or repression) that protect the ego from anxiety or distress.

I think this perfectly captures the psychological reasons behind the wildly delusional Indian national mood and character.

Since BJP took power, Modi and his cronies have intentionally fostered a ultra-nationalistic narrative about India’s greatness and Hindu superiority.

• India has launched unprecedented repressions of Muslims and deprived the Kashmir region (a Muslim majority region) its long-held autonomous status.
• India has embraced the fantasy to replace China as the world’s manufacturing center and top economic growth engine by opportunistically aligning with the US and the west. At the same time, it is exploring the Russia Ukraine war to enrich itself by selling Russian oil at inflated price to the west.
• India has boasted its economy has surpassed UK and France and will join the US and China in no time as the largest economies in the world while it is still behind Japan and Germany. To inflate its GDP, India has changed its GDP accounting method twice in the last 10 years and started to count cow dung as part of GDP as agricultural inputs. Grok estimates Indian GDP calculation included the value of cow dung and other manure at $4.7 billion in 2023.
• India has attempted to bolster its military by purchasing a hodge podge suite of brand-name weaponries from France, Russia, the US and Israel. India spent 7.8 billion Euros in 2015 to purchase 36 Rafale fighters, or 220 million Euros per jet, making it the most expensive fighter jet ever sold by that time. There was so much corruption by Modi’s cronies in the deal that Wikipedia has an entire entry dedicated to the controversy. Even after the corruption case was exposed, India decided to double down and spent anther $7.4 billion to buy 26 Rafale jets for its navy just this past April. That is a staggering price tag of $285 million per Rafale, a new world record.

This Pakistan India air war was initially intended by India to show off its new found muscle until it has its ass handed back by Pakistan.

Similarly, the Modi regime announced with big fanfare its Make In India campaign in 2015 to replace China as the world’s manufacturing powerhouse. It targeted manufacturing to reach 25% GDP by 2025. Instead, Indian manufacturing GDP was 13% by 2024, down from 17% in 2010. In contrast, according to CSIS, value-added industrial output accounted for nearly 40% China’s GDP (vs. 18% in the US). Given China’s GDP is 5 times of India, that means China’s manufacturing GDP alone is 2 times as big as India’s total GDP or 16 times India’s manufacturing output.

Another interesting statistic – in Paris 2024 Olympics, India won a grand total of 6 medals – 1 silver and 5 bronze, ranking 71st among the 84 countries with medal count. This is India’s third best medal haul after 2020 and 2012, according to Wikipedia. The world’s most populous country ranks between Lithuania (70th, population 2.8 million) and Moldova (72nd population 2.4 million). India’s Gold medal haul (0) was lower than Hong Kong (2). The US and China (ex. Hong Kong) each won 40 Gold medals, and 126 and 91 total medals respectively.

This wild gap between India’s self-perception (or should we say self-delusion) as a great power and the cold reality of its economic and social backwardness is the reason behind the mass delusion.

It’s a sad combination of inferiority complex and unfounded sense of grandeur.

There was a famous character called Ah Q in an early 20th century literature work in China. Ah Q is a loser but cannot accept his lowly station in life. So he goes around telling himself he is better than the other people around him, often saying “I was beaten by my bastard son” after losing a fight. In the end, he was framed for a robbery and sentenced to death. When he was signing his death warrant by drawing a circle (since he couldn’t write), he was more upset about the circle not drawn perfectly than the death sentence.

Indians didn’t succeed in copying China’s economic success. Instead, the Indians have fully adopted Ah Q’s delusional “spiritual victory” method of coping with failures and humiliations.

The Indian celebration of their imagined success perfectly reflects Ah Q’s delusional defiance when he tried to sing a heroic song on the road to his execution. He couldn’t sing with his wobbly voice at that point, instead weakly uttered a phrase commonly used by criminals before execution, ”In another 20 years, I shall be another stout young fellow”.

The Indian media obsession with spectacles mirror Ah Q’s morbid disappointment at the crowd at his execution – they were bored because he didn’t sing properly and lamented that he was shot instead of beheaded, denying them the “entertainment” of a decapitation .

India’s celebration of its defeat at the hand of Pakistan encapsulates Ah Q’s entire existence – a blend of farce and tragedy, where self-deception persists until the bullet ends his life.

On a higher level, the dishonest propaganda by the Indian government and media is an information war against its own population. Few foreigners believe the Indian official narrative. The Indian government and media has completely lost any credibility at this point. So the real target of the disinformation campaign is the Indian population itself.

A nation without basic intellectual honesty and suffering from cognitive dissonance will not rise. Instead it will be the butt of jokes by late night comedians.

In the so-called “largest democracy in the world” where the rule is one Rupiah one vote, Modi is resorting to the lowest level of “democratic” playbook – keep the population dumb and get their votes through lies.

Indian Mass Delusion Syndrome on Full Display

What leads people to celebrate defeat as victory?

www.unz.com

Gradually the numbers are increasing for Indian side with every passing day.
From 3 aircraft and one S400, now the numbers are close to 10 aircraft and entire S400 wiped out. All bases rendered useless.
Very soon, the entire defence forces would be written off.
Wondering It must have been Vedic ghost aircraft that were firing Brahmos and hitting command and control centre 10 miles from Islamabad and hangars with high value assets with no resistance at all.

Some of these keyboard warriors deserve the highest award for bravery displayed over these pages. Just with there bare finger force on keyboards they have decimated India.

 

[Liquidator]

Gradually the numbers are increasing for Indian side with every passing day.
From 3 aircraft and one S400, now the numbers are close to 10 aircraft and entire S400 wiped out. All bases rendered useless.
Very soon, the entire defence forces would be written off.
Wondering It must have been Vedic ghost aircraft that were firing Brahmos and hitting command and control centre 10 miles from Islamabad and hangars with high value assets with no resistance at all.

Some of these keyboard warriors deserve the highest award for bravery displayed over these pages. Just with there bare finger force on keyboards they have decimated India.

I totally understand.

If only some handsome chappy from our side did a nice power point presentation outlining how many we shot down....that would have mitigated against our narrative not being clear.

Sorry saar next time we will doo daat.

 

[Vkdindian1]

I totally understand.

If only some handsome chappy from our side did a nice power point presentation outlining how many we shot down....that would have mitigated against our narrative not being clear.

Sorry saar next time we will doo daat.

Were those skills lost while giving proof for attack in ground targets?

 

[PakistanLVR]

This is where I'm not happy or celebrating those Indian jets being shot down. They attacked our civilian targets, mosques nevertheless and killed innocent Pakistan. Pakistani military only retaliated, rather weakly with artillery and Fatahs instead of leveling the Indian air bases closest to Pakistan in India proper and Kashmir

The Indians spread misinformation all day long because they are bastards of the lowest form, but I don't like ours doing the same by claiming of a massive counter-strike which turned out to be a big burger of nothing. The Indians in the literal sense attacked every base of PAF and only then did the Pakistan military engaged them. The Indians have found a way to have a sub-nuclear war by massively attacking Pakistan. Pakistanis are cowards for not retaliating massively. I don't buy the Bull-crap of a massive Pakistani attack or do I accept that 5 or 6 Indian jets were shot down. This was Pakistan saving face. I am also utterly convinced the Indians will strike at Pakistan randomly going forward because the Pakistanis lack spine and courage. The Indians will also shut off the water and Pakistan will cry in a whimper but will not do anything.

If the Pakistanis had courage and b*lls, they would've wiped out the Indian bases closest to Pakistan and pushed the ceasefire back by 10-20 miles (taking out as many Indian positions there as possible). But Instead they ran to the Americans via the Arabs for a ceasefire. Call me whatever names you people want but beneath all the stupid celebration and the disgusting promotion of a 4 star to a field marshal rank, Pakistan has lost the plot and the enemy has smelled blood and will back more thoroughly prepared. I'm disappointed that only a handful of Pakistanis are aknowledging the gigantic f*up here. @MastanKhan I typically do not agree with you but you hit the nail 100% on the head. No one knows what Pakistan accepted as part of the ceasefire.

 

[Falcon26]

This is where I'm not happy or celebrating those Indian jets being shot down. They attacked our civilian targets, mosques nevertheless and killed innocent Pakistan. Pakistani military only retaliated, rather weakly with artillery and Fatahs instead of leveling the Indian air bases closest to Pakistan in India proper and Kashmir

The Indians spread misinformation all day long because they are bastards of the lowest form, but I don't like ours doing the same by claiming of a massive counter-strike which turned out to be a big burger of nothing. The Indians in the literal sense attacked every base of PAF and only then did the Pakistan military engaged them. The Indians have found a way to have a sub-nuclear war by massively attacking Pakistan. Pakistanis are cowards for not retaliating massively. I don't buy the Bull-crap of a massive Pakistani attack or do I accept that 5 or 6 Indian jets were shot down. This was Pakistan saving face. I am also utterly convinced the Indians will strike at Pakistan randomly going forward because the Pakistanis lack spine and courage. The Indians will also shut off the water and Pakistan will cry in a whimper but will not do anything.

If the Pakistanis had courage and b*lls, they would've wiped out the Indian bases closest to Pakistan and pushed the ceasefire back by 10-20 miles (taking out as many Indian positions there as possible). But Instead they ran to the Americans via the Arabs for a ceasefire. Call me whatever names you people want but beneath all the stupid celebration and the disgusting promotion of a 4 star to a field marshal rank, Pakistan has lost the plot and the enemy has smelled blood and will back more thoroughly prepared. I'm disappointed that only a handful of Pakistanis are aknowledging the gigantic f*up here. @MastanKhan I typically do not agree with you but you hit the nail 100% on the head. No one knows what Pakistan accepted as part of the ceasefire.

The IAF was dealt a psychological blow and the PAF was able to down almost each IAF frontline fighter jet within the first hour of the fight. Pakistan Air Force owned the Indians and this was on a global display. The images of wreckage of downed premier Indian fighter jets will haunt the IAF for years to come.

But everything that followed was a disaster. The incredibly meek “restraint and maturity” rhetoric by ISPR was both confusing and handed the Indians the initiative. As soon as the ceasefire conversations started, the Indians launched swarms of drones and missiles to score some face saving blows. The failure of GHQ to respond for a full 48-hours and to wait till India doubled down and struck multiple PAF bases and even then to order PAF to carry out symbolic response was absolutely criminal and in an ideal situation, someone should have been court-martialed. Instead top army guy got himself promoted even though it was the PAF that has carried the day.

The extremely politicized nature of Pakistan army and their doctrine of no escalation even as the country is being bombed by a sworn Hindu nationalist enemy has brought shame to Pakistan. In the future, this will only invite more similar attacks.

No small country, especially a country like Pakistan which faces Hindu nationalist fanatics, can afford to show “restraint and maturity.” Doing so is a death sentence and I hope that this shameful conduct is never repeated again. Pakistan must always hit the Hindu nationalists fast & hard and always be overly eager to escalate, not cower like cowards as mister Munir of the Pakistan army did.