JF-17 PFX program

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan appears to be pursuing two distinct fighter jet programs, one focused on a single engine platform and the other on a twin engine design. The J-35A, offered by China, is expected to serve as a stopgap solution until Pakistan’s indigenous PFX fighter jet is ready for production.

There is no way PAF is still trying to design and build a 2 engine stealth platform by itself or in any collaboration deal. That initiative was originally called Project Azm, and it was abandoned as not being technically feasible for Pakistan to do.

Meanwhile, Pakistan continues the JF-17 Block 3 production to strengthen its own fleet and fulfill export commitments to countries like Azerbaijan, Iraq, Bangladesh, and Sudan. Alongside this, Pakistan is actively collaborating with China and Turkey to finalize the design of its next-generation fighters.

Iraq JF17C deal was cancelled as the Iraqi's switched to the Rafale ( I bet they are saying Yikes about now if it wasn't for all the bribes they agreed as part of the deal and if they actually cared about capability !!! ). Bangladesh, Sudan have not placed any orders at all ( nor are they likely to do so ).

Yes - Pakistan will procure Kaan with some level of local manufacturing and J-35AE will be an off the shelf purchase.

The single-engine fighter program is anticipated to be an upgraded version of the JF-17 Block 3, featuring a modified airframe and enhanced capabilities.

PAC may try engine re-engine to a more powerful engine and potentially try to add an extra hardpoint on the wings at "most", but nothing beyond that. The structure of the JF17C will remain unchanged.

On the other hand, the twin-engine fighter program is likely to be closely linked to Turkey’s TAI Kaan project, which aims to develop a 5th-generation stealth fighter.

Both the J-35AE and Kaan are twin-engined jets.

Pakistan’s shift toward twin-engine fighters marks a significant departure from its traditional reliance on single-engine platforms, reflecting its ambition to enhance combat survivability, operational range, and payload capacity. If successfully developed, these programs could reshape Pakistan’s aerial capabilities and strategic posture in the region.

Yes - Agree.

 

[JamD]

IMO... Something like CATS Warrior is doable.

It's not a low-hanging fruit by any stretch, but the basic ingredients are all there if we invest in building them up.

HAL CATS Warrior - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't know. Maybe something smaller is better for Pakistan.

For example, these are all UCAVs that carry other weapons. But MAYBE what Pakistan really needs is not 10 big weapon carrying UCAVs but 1000 smaller UCAVs that can act as decoys and LMs. Closer to a target drone than to a manned jet. I'm not saying one is needed more than the other, just that this question needs to be asked first.

 

[frontline360news]

There is no way PAF is still trying to design and build a 2 engine stealth platform by itself or in any collaboration deal. That initiative was originally called Project Azm, and it was abandoned as not being technically feasible for Pakistan to do.


Iraq JF17C deal was cancelled as the Iraqi's switched to the Rafale ( I bet they are saying Yikes about now if it wasn't for all the bribes they agreed as part of the deal and if they actually cared about capability !!! ). Bangladesh, Sudan have not placed any orders at all ( nor are they likely to do so ).

Yes - Pakistan will procure Kaan with some level of local manufacturing and J-35AE will be an off the shelf purchase.


PAC may try engine re-engine to a more powerful engine and potentially try to add an extra hardpoint on the wings at "most", but nothing beyond that. The structure of the JF17C will remain unchanged.



Both the J-35AE and Kaan are twin-engined jets.



Yes - Agree.

Pakistan is committed to continuing its fighter jet production beyond the JF-17 program, whether through homegrown development or collaborations with Turkey and China.

 

[studsmart]

well i wonder how many 5th gen fighter PAF will procure

1 - PFX
2 - J35A
3 - KAAN -P

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Though off topic, can we now ask the question, where the 6th generation Tejas will fit in the future battle scenario?

Given that PAF has swatted the Rafales, SU-30MKI, Mig-29 and Mirage-2000.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Though off topic, can we now ask the question, where the 6th generation Tejas will fit in the future battle scenario?

Given that PAF has swatted the Rafales, SU-30MKI, Mig-29 and Mirage-2000.

You can mock the Indians all you want but the AMCA project and even their Kaveri engine is going to get a huge amount of funding and resources poured into it and even if it takes a while they'll have a locally manufactured jet while we are flexing with imports designed/controlled by foreigners.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

You can mock the Indians all you want but the AMCA project and even their Kaveri engine is going to get a huge amount of funding and resources poured into it and even if it takes a while they'll have a locally manufactured jet while we are flexing with imports designed/controlled by foreigners.

To be honest, it was not a completely mocking question.

My question was on Tejas but your reply includes AMCA and Kaveri.

I asked the question because every platform (example, the most renowned plane F-16) can last for a time period. After some time, every platform becomes obsolete.

What is the point of introducing Tejas now?

 

[Rational Philosopher]

To be honest, it was not a completely mocking question.

My question was on Tejas but your reply includes AMCA and Kaveri.

I asked the question because every platform (example, the most renowned plane F-16) can last for a time period. After some time, every platform becomes obsolete.

What is the point of introducing Tejas now?

It'll probably end up serving part of the "low"-end of the Indian fighter fleet in the future with 5th gens as the "high"-end.

Bit like JF-17 will to J-35.

 

[Ak01]

I don't know. Maybe something smaller is better for Pakistan.

For example, these are all UCAVs that carry other weapons. But MAYBE what Pakistan really needs is not 10 big weapon carrying UCAVs but 1000 smaller UCAVs that can act as decoys and LMs. Closer to a target drone than to a manned jet. I'm not saying one is needed more than the other, just that this question needs to be asked first.

kagem with variable payloads

 

[hussain0216]

I see utility in the PFX program, for multiple reasons
From being a platform for Pakistani home grown weapons
To being a platform for Pakistani products from radars to avionics etc


But mainly because I ask myself

What about Kenya
What about Cambodia
Or Zimbabwe, Uzbekistan, Tanzania etc etc


As the world moves on to 5th and 6th gen planes, states need ever more complicated infrastructure to support those planes and most countries in the world don't have that, and won't fund it or choose to fund it

I ask myself isn't JF17>>>>>PFX, something we could push for the worlds countries that still need a air force even if it's a few planes when they are out priced of the 5th and 6th gen markets?

Wasn't that something we always said the JF17 was perfect for

 

[Khan090]

Pakistan lacks the infrastructure to build something like the KF21. What wind tunnel testing capabilities does Pakistan have to test something like a KF21? What radar signature testing facilities does Pakistan have? The answer is NONE ...

We all saw how much Turkey spent on the required infrastructure and facilities before it attempted the Kaan project. Pakistan has not made similar types of investments.

PFX is either a fully local built variant(ie all airframe) of the JF17C with new Pakistan avionics additions, or it will be a failed project. Lets not kid ourselves here.

No
PFX will purely be a fifth gen fighter jet.
Pakistan's future 5th gen jets (J35 & Kaan) both are twin engine jets.
On the other hand PFX will be a single engine 5th gen jet to form the future backbone of Pakistan Air Force.
But PFX is not coming any soon.
It is a very long term project beyond 2035-2040, it is Pakistan's project AZM.
Many think that project AZM is terminated but this is not true as it was clearly mentioned as a project of modernizing Pakistan Air Force, this was never about a particular jet.
NASTP is not a substitute of project AZM but one part of the research & development of this project. This project also includes imported weapons to modernize our Air Force.
AZM is never terminated, but it was actually a "azm e now" of Pakistan Air Force regarding its modernization through indigenous and imported next gen products with primary focus to make most of the products in home in far future.

And for your calling pfx a jf17 variant it is wrong.
PFX-Alpha will be a first step of minor re-designing of JF17 and equip it with indigenous avionics, sensors, radar, missiles etc with enhanced capabilities and will be seen at least in 2028.
And stop rattling about the propaganda that next is the age of fifth gen jets.
India still flies 2nd/3rd gen jets and Pakistan also.
As given Indian pace it will take India 30-40 years at least to replace its current aging fleet with 5th gen.
So the next block of jf17 under JF17-PfxAlpha banner will be far relevant in the next three decades at least. As we currently have F7pgs etc.

 

[Khan090]

What you mention is true today and may be for the next five years at most. The future of air warfare lies in fifth and sixth-generation aircraft, with trusted wingmen, plus AI-driven drones and stealth UCAVs. There is limited or no space for fourth and fourth-and-a-half generation fighters if the adversary has all of the above. In fact, the classic dogfight might just make a comeback as the BVR advantage is diminished due to the low-observable designs of fifth and sixth-generation fighters supported by stealth UCAV wingmen.

Think near future not immediate future

You think India will replace all of its current fleet with 5th and next gen fighters within 5 years?
Given that they even manage to replace their 2nd/3rd gen fleet yet and 40+ years have passed.

 

[Khan090]

Though off topic, can we now ask the question, where the 6th generation Tejas will fit in the future battle scenario?

Given that PAF has swatted the Rafales, SU-30MKI, Mig-29 and Mirage-2000.

It will fully fit in the future fighter jet markets.
As rafales and su30mki already failed.
But Pakistan even can't have a lock on Super Tejas.
Next will be a dooms day for su57/f35 and then will come the undefeatable Tejas!

 

[Michael]

No
PFX will purely be a fifth gen fighter jet.
Pakistan's future 5th gen jets (J35 & Kaan) both are twin engine jets.
On the other hand PFX will be a single engine 5th gen jet to form the future backbone of Pakistan Air Force.

My friend, your wishes go beyond some basic common sense.

You try to guess.
Why is it that the minimum configuration of all 5th-Gen fighters in service, under development, and in the pipeline around the world are two medium thrust engines? They are at least medium fighter class. (J-35 / KF-21 /AMCA)
Why is it that no country has proposed a 5th-Gen fighter program with a single medium thrust engine program (light fighter)?

------UCAV is not in that range.

 

[Oscar]

I don't know. Maybe something smaller is better for Pakistan.

For example, these are all UCAVs that carry other weapons. But MAYBE what Pakistan really needs is not 10 big weapon carrying UCAVs but 1000 smaller UCAVs that can act as decoys and LMs. Closer to a target drone than to a manned jet. I'm not saying one is needed more than the other, just that this question needs to be asked first.

The smaller aspect is required to saturate the rather impressive and effective ADGE east.
You're better off using ground based long range munitions to target the emitters as they pick up.
The electronic floor isnt the one faced by militaries in the vast pacific - it is rather noisy and suits smaller number of low observable platforms acting as "ninjas" while the rest basically create so much noise they cannot be "heard".