Pakistan has a Problem | Quwa Group - My Counter Thoughts

[Rebirth]

It's only on Type 045/AP ships. It doesn't have any land-deployed LACM options.

Its what you think, PN never buy AShM with out air sea and land launch capabilities

 

[falcon34]

100-150 yearly is ALOT. Thats what India ramped BrahMos numbers up to only the last few years.

Id put the estimates more at low double digits- IF THAT

You don't need the heavy heat resistant airframe that of barhamos, you don't need hardened guidance to with withstand mach 3 pressure, For pak things are quite simple and straight forward, I was being conservative with 100-150. Initially Babur had quad MLV which later was redesigned, initially it was seen has potent precision strike platform, all that info is available on net.
That's the basis of my argument, we did not had Jeff's In numbers back than. We needed a long hitting stick and it was Babur.
Another reason for it's volume deployment in conventional role is it's MLV which can three of them, something not even available for Shaheen 1. The MLV is the biggest reason I think we have deployed Babur in volume. pak had a regiment of baburs in service in 2008, you access the current numbers yourself.

Babur has added a deadly dimension to the battlefield

In operational terms, cruise missiles are better suited than ballistic missiles for use with conventional warheads as their accuracy is far better.

forceindia.net

Give it a read, it's worth it.

 

[Zorawar Light Tank]

This one found in Sirsa is S125 pechora debris

View attachment 126277

There is a video showing the launch of a Fatah missile from Pakistan, with the Pakistani Army shouting “Allahu Akbar.” However, the moment second missile was fired, they panicked and rushed toward the launcher in confusion.

 

[Ak01]

There is a video showing the launch of a Fatah missile from Pakistan, with the Pakistani Army shouting “Allahu Akbar.” However, the moment second missile was fired, they panicked and rushed toward the launcher in confusion.

this is not bollywood. You should not try and twist stuff- we're not dumb.

Do you know what shoot and scoot is?

After the second missile launched, they rushed to scoot to prevent counter battery fire.

Dont come here with stupidity- it will get called out.

 

[Migflug]

100-150 yearly is ALOT. Thats what India ramped BrahMos numbers up to only the last few years.

Id put the estimates more at low double digits- IF THAT

Hi, all Brahmos were air-launched, as per the official sources. Could you explain why PAF performed well on May 7th but was not much in the picture over the next 3 days? especially on May 10th. How come the IAF faced PAF resistance while targeting terror HQs, but faced none when targeting PAF airbases? The only difference between 7th and 10th was that the IAF was primarily using the Rafale-Scalp combo on 7th, while it was the Su30MKI-Brahmos combo on the 10th.
What's your take on it!!

 

[veeru]

This one found in Sirsa is S125 pechora debris

View attachment 126277

Then it did a good job to turn fateh missile into small fragments

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[Ak01]

And THERE WONT be
From GW1 to the Houtis and Ukraine.

Saturation attacks will overwhelm systems.

People are forgetting
Sams dont grow on Fauji Foundation farms
They cost money per missle
A single AHEAD round for the Oerlikon is a few hundred dollars

You are usually looking at doctrine to launch more than one missile to intercept a system like Brahmos.

Eventually you need to conserve those missiles for other attacks

However, you cannot afford the numbers needed to have some very dense AD.

So your window is simple - right after the initial attacks go all out to destroy those attackers - or they shoot first and you lose your ability to strike back.

You can shoot every IAF jet out of the sky all the way to Dehli and have their pilots refuse to leave their bedrooms but unless you follow up with destroying offensive weapons to you in an all out fashion - you’re not preventing any losses to yourself.

Realistically, who does have a reliable means of interception. We saw how poorly Israel's AD performed against Iranian missiles despite being given prior warning of launch, much longer missile travel distance and the strength of RJAF and U.S navy. Just 2 days ago we saw how Ukraine's AD which has almost every western AD system struggle against Russian missiles. I don't think building intercept capability really is a viable strategy against BM's just because of how ineffective they are. Really the only good strategy is effective counter offensive missiles but if your strategy is to respond to a country wide BM attack on Pakistan with a country wide BM attack on India why not just go straight to limited tactical nuke strikes?

Yes, not much, Ukrainians said p800 was a particular thorn in their side, but then we need to look at other, non kinetic solutions, like dispersed ops etc

 

[Ak01]

Then it did a good job to turn fateh missile into small fragments

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perhaps in your imagination- shoo, this isnt DFI, go there and spew nonsense

 

[Migflug]

Sir, if you don't mind, can you please tell about the Pakistani missile type that was intercepted over Sirsa around 1 AM on May 10th? I believe this incident accelerated the Indian response.

It was Fatah-II

 

[the vicious kind]

People in the border areas witnessed hundreds of incoming missiles being flawlessly intercepted in the air by India’s interceptor missiles. Every single missile was neutralized with 100% accuracy—no one saw even a single missile bypass the Indian air defense system.

Ah yes, the classic eyewitness miracles—the same kind of logic that gives us blurry UFOs and ghost stories.

People on the ground reportedly heard explosions and saw fireballs, but that doesn’t automatically mean successful interceptions. In fact, multiple wreckages were found deep inside Indian territory, and visual confirmation of at least several impacts has surfaced on social media and OSINT platforms.

No modern air defense system—whether it’s S-400, Iron Dome, or Patriot—has ever achieved 100% interception success in real combat. Even the most advanced systems have known limitations, especially against low-flying cruise missiles with small RCS and terrain-hugging flight profiles.

So unless India has secretly developed sci-fi level technology, this claim of perfect interception is nothing more than nationalistic wishful thinking.

 

[veeru]

perhaps in your imagination- shoo, this isnt DFI, go there and spew nonsense

CCtv video of Sirsa attack and not my imagination.

 

[the vicious kind]

It was Fatah-II

Not it wasnt , it was a wreakage of Indian S-125 Pechora SAM as identified by its Fins

 

[Falcon26]

You don't stop a bullet!
Go back in time and people either shielded themselves from arrows or took out the archers.

Pakistan does not have a BrahMos problem... Pakistan has inadequate number of cogs in the wheel to identify origin pre launch and than if missed through the chain of AD, point defense.

Pakistan needs enough of a bubble to push the launches meaningfully away from the border and keep sites under meaningful surveillance. Preempt where possible, catch up where missed. Turks have Gokberk and Alka for point defense which can compliment CIWS. However no point defense is fully secure. There needs to be loitering drones for both electronic disruption or hard kills. That will only improve with meaningful input and provide better results overtime.

I think the most cost effective countermeasure is a similar effective supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles that can give back India in a similar dosage and destructions.

Countermeasures are too resource intensive and expensive. Pakistan doesn’t have the time or luxury.

If the Indians know every time they target a Pakistani airbase, 2-3 airbases of theirs will go up in flames, they won’t engage in these sorts of attacks. Problem is Pakistan has been investing in ballistic missiles when the era of ballistic missiles is objectively over. They have dismissed supersonic and hypersonic missiles.

 

[Zorawar Light Tank]

Ah yes, the classic eyewitness miracles—the same kind of logic that gives us blurry UFOs and ghost stories.

People on the ground reportedly heard explosions and saw fireballs, but that doesn’t automatically mean successful interceptions. In fact, multiple wreckages were found deep inside Indian territory, and visual confirmation of at least several impacts has surfaced on social media and OSINT platforms.

No modern air defense system—whether it’s S-400, Iron Dome, or Patriot—has ever achieved 100% interception success in real combat. Even the most advanced systems have known limitations, especially against low-flying cruise missiles with small RCS and terrain-hugging flight profiles.

So unless India has secretly developed sci-fi level technology, this claim of perfect interception is nothing more than nationalistic wishful thinking.

No air defense system is 100% foolproof on its own, but a multi-layered air defense system offers near-total protection. The S-400 is just one component of India’s multi-layered air defense network. Even if the S-400 fails to intercept an incoming missile, several other systems are positioned further along the defense chain, including India’s indigenous Aakash TEER system. Interception is not solely dependent on the S-400; instead, it is carried out layer by layer by multiple systems. In addition to missile interceptors, electronic jammers and directed energy weapons also play a crucial role in neutralizing threats.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Debris of Pakistani Fateh Missile at Sirsa.

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This is how the tail fins of a Fatah 2 missile look you absolute clown - do they in any way look the same?