‘Analytical mistake to see Pakistan-Turkey relationship as a case of assistance’,warns Ilya Roubanis - ThePrint Uninterrupted

[Foinikas]

Part two

The Greek expert was very respectful and knowledgeable about Turkey and Pakistan. He didn't take shots at either. The Greeks aren't like that. Only the Indians display those women characteristics of making silly questions like a neighborhood women scorn and upset that her man left her.

I don't think Pakistanis or Indians should try too hard to read anything into Greek ruminations regarding our nations through the specific lens of a projected Turkey-Greece conflict. This reductionism has been turned into an art form by Delhi, where Turkey and Azerbaijan are suddenly public enemy no. 1 while Armenia and Greece are somehow their allies since time immemorial.

Indians have been constantly trying to project themselves as "allies" and "best friends" of other countries,all because of their problems with Pakistan. For example,you've seen how Indians were shouting their love and eternal brotherhood to Russia. It was all about Mr.Putin sir back then. After the late 2010s,that changed. Then it was all about Israel best friends and we are your allies and good friends always Mr.Netanyahu sir.

They try to convince Greeks that we're natural allies. Same with the Armenians. From what I know,Armenians are disgusted by them. Israelis too.

I've been on groups on FB about military and geopolitics stuff and we've literally had Greeks,Serbs,Turks,Arabs,a couple of Pakistanis,westerners all disliking Indians.

The ones I know, who happen to be some of the most professional individuals I have worked with by the way, use logic and rational processes to guide their personal opinions, even regarding their old enemy, Turkey.

Something that I've been trying to stress on the forum for years,but I don't see it get through often,except in some cases,is that Greece-Turkey is similar to Pakistan-India.

Unfortunately,a lot of Pakistanis don't see Turkey as anything less than ingenious,innovative,brave,honorable example of how a Muslim State should be.

Now,getting back to Pakistan,the funny thing is that right before I checked this thread,I was replying to a guy's comment under an article of a greek defence site.

The problem is,because of Pakistan's immense friendship and cooperation with Turkey,
a lot of Greeks who check military and defence stuff,are automatically opposed to Pakistan.

Another factor that contributes to this,is the highly repulsive crimes and conduct of Pakistani illegals here,that gave the whole nation a very bad name. Some people don't like to hear about this,but it's true.

So anyway,I've been trying to get them to see things objectively and not believe Indian claims. Most of them believe it's Pakistan that's a big liar and India who's showing proof.

Let me use google translate

Amiral 5 hours ago
IAF (possibly) losses on Air

1 Rafale in bathinda
1 Mirage2000 in pampore
1 Mig29 in Ramban
1 Su30mki in Akhnoor

No major losses on ground

PAF (possibly) losses on air

1. Mirage 5 by Akash SAM at Sialkot
2. F16 by S-400 at Muzzafarabad
3. JF-17 by S-400 at Muridke
4. F-16 by Meteor at Skardu
5. Saab 2000 by S-400 at Gujarat

Pakistan also losses on ground
2 JF-17, 8 F16, 1 awacs, 1, C-130, 11 airbase damaged , 2 HQ-9 system losses

This result (the most convincing I have read) the Pakistanis (along with the communication propaganda of the Chinese and Americans, each for their own reasons but also the two together to stop losing contracts to the French) made it seem communicatively that they had defeated the Indians by a landslideWhy?
Because (in all likelihood) they shot down 1 Rafale?The Indians ground them to the groundThe lies from the Paks are endlessAll their channels said that we have advanced 17 thousand into (occupied) Indian KashmirOf course you are laughingThe Indians fully admitted that the fighters they lost in the big BVR were clearly a mistake in their own tactics which they corrected the next day (and had these results in the Crash)

My reply to him:

Indian channels were saying that they had captured Islamabad, that they had captured General Asim Munir, that General Shahbaz had resigned, that the BLA rebels had taken Quetta, that the Indian Army was attacking Lahore, that the port of Karachi had been completely destroyed, etc. etc.

People are crazy storytellers

He continues




I explained to him in detail.

Unfortunately,many Greeks don't know. They think we should have better relationships with them and get technology transfer.Many keep holding the Brahmos in high esteem.

Basically,Greeks are also divided on this matter as well. Some mock the Chinese equipment and say it's all Pakistani and Chinese lies and propaganda,the others praise the great Chinese and Russian equipment which we should be getting instead of Western ones.

 

[PakistanLVR]

Who cares what indians say or think? They are a s**t meaningless inferior people that no one in the world takes seriously. They are also the biggest propaganda and disinformation centre of the planet. india has no credibility or standing in the world. Even faeces have a better standing in the world than indians or india.

I don't, but posted this because of the Greek guest. Very well averse. Important insight on how the rest of the world sees Pakistan vs what an Indian thinks Pakistan is. We know our strength.

 

[Foinikas]

I don't, but posted this because of the Greek guest. Very well averse. Important insight on how the rest of the world sees Pakistan vs what an Indian thinks Pakistan is. We know our strength.

I noticed that the reporter seemed very cringey in some parts. She rushed to say "You have 24 Rafale yes" and then again "Yes,you have 24 Mirage 2000-5" and then "haha and 120 F-16s". Like,ok yes well done,you did your research on this subject,what do you want a medal?

But then just look at how she gets all surprised and a bit upset even when he says "Pakistanis have been the Air Force of Asia since the 1970s". It's like she even got offended.

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Even western countries at this point want to simply forget about the GWOT ever happening - so its kinda inconvenient for them that India keeps trying to raise it up again

The Hindu Extremists still believe that anti-Muslim, anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan hate will somehow get them praise and support from the West.

They just don't realise that the world has moved on from War on Terror to a more dangerous Ukraine-Russia War and that the West need need the Muslim World's (especially big countries) backing militarily, diplomatically, financially and politically.

 

[PakistanLVR]

The Hindu Extremists still believe that anti-Muslim, anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan hate will somehow get them praise and support from the West.

They just don't realise that the world has moved on from War on Terror to a more dangerous Ukraine-Russia War and that the West need need the Muslim World's (especially big countries) backing militarily, diplomatically, financially and politically.

This! none of my White friends give AF about 9/11. They all believe it was non Muslims. I do not understand why these stupid Indians are still trying to score points when everyone knows and believe how things unfolded.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Indians going after Greece, Armeenia is just desperation. Greeks are logical people and not stupid high on gau mutra like Indians who think Turkey shouldn't exist on map.

Greek couldn't care less if Turkey-Pakistan have some military relations.

Indians have a immature Bollywod view of the world. This is the vast majority of them. Not a sensible realpolitik one, but that hyperexaggerated corny stuff and they take diplomatic relations way too personally.

 

[Salza]

Greek analyst clearly knows Indian Rafales got spanked badly last month and its a concern for the Greeks as well because they operates the same planes as well. Having said that Greek pilots will make better use of the Rafales than Indians. This is given.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Indians have a immature Bollywod view of the world. This is the vast majority of them. Not a sensible realpolitik one, but that hyperexaggerated corny stuff and they take diplomatic relations way too personally.

absolute cringe



Typical low class chai wala classless donkey who think he can bully small neighbours while being cringe and pathetic when meeting white head of rich foreign countries.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

This! none of my White friends give AF about 9/11. They all believe it was non Muslims. I do not understand why these stupid Indians are still trying to score points when everyone knows and believe how things unfolded.

This is why Roubanis ignored her when she said that.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

absolute cringe

View attachment 126748

Typical low class chai wala classless donkey who think he can bully small neighbours while being cringe and pathetic when meeting white head of rich foreign countries.

indians ain't bullying anything. In fact, india got bullied and battered by a nation that is 7× smaller than it despite india also having the full backing of the west, america, israel and russia.

 

[Cash gk]

Ilya Roubanis is a non-resident fellow of the Institute of International Relations in Athens. In an exclusive conversation with ThePrint Consulting Editor Swasti Rao, Roubanis discusses Turkish military support to Pakistan, 5th generation Kaan project, the China factor in Ankara - Islamabad equation & relationship between Turkey, China and the Gulf. - YouTube Comment.

I watched this whole interview and I have to say that I was correct in my assessment that every Indian is slight degree full supportative of the Right Wing Hindutva Nationalist politically.

This interview was conducted by the "The Print" a more "moderate" Indian news media-house, but the host in their typical Indian manner conducted the interview implicit confirmation biases that Ilya Roubanis skillfully sidestepped and corrected the host, Swasti Rao.

My own key takeaways from this interview:

• The Indian host, Swasti Rao the kept interjecting and rudely interrupting Ilya Roubanis
• Acted shocked when Iiya mentioned that Pakistan has sent 150 engineers to the Kaan project and isn't just there with their "hands open."
• The Indian host snidely claimed that Pakistan is the epicenter of Global terrorism (LOL).
• The Indian host repeatedly kept bringing up the OP Sindoor. It felt like a drinking game in college whenever you hear a certain word, you take a shot etc.
• the Indian host claims that for India, UAE is very important- the guest, IIya added that for UAE, India is also very important (thereby implying don't think of yourself as high and mighty).
• The Indian host was shocked when the guest mentioned the quality of Pakistanis from the Pilots in the Gulf Airforces to their understanding of the Chinese military doctrine and experiences.
• The Indian host tried to claim that Turkey will sell their S400 to Pakistan, at which point the guest said that likely will not since Pakistan's doctrine is different from the S400 can and will bring.
• The Indian host would repeatedly ask “innocent” questions but it was obviously to the Greek guest that there was an agenda.
• The Indian host either genuinely doesn't know anything about Pakistan and clearly believes in the BJP/Bollywood propaganda that Pakistan is a backward, broke nation and can be easily pushed around.
• She was acting and playing mind games with the gentleman trying to present an image of a Pakistan that supports terrorism and is backwards.
• Tried to brag about downing Turkish drones to the Guest.

Overall, the Greek guest was very knowleadage about Pakistan and the Indian Host was incredibly rude.

One of the more insightful comments on this video:
"
The host is surprised by basic facts about pakistan capability. This just shows Indian arrogance and denial. Putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalala at the mention of pakistan is not a military strategy. This is precisely what gets you disgraced on the battlefield when your whole fleet of fighter jets has to be grounded for 2 days in a four day clash. As ou try and figure out what went wrong.And then interrupting the guest by saying childish things like … we downed their Turkish drones just shows your level. Of seriousness and lack of sincerity and your basic desperation. lol, drones are not fighter jets. It is assumed they will get shot down. Their purpose is different to a …. Emmm… Rafael? Lol"

B**** does not have any idea what the f*** she's talking about. This man knows what he's talking about

 

[SaadH]

Ilya Roubanis is a non-resident fellow of the Institute of International Relations in Athens. In an exclusive conversation with ThePrint Consulting Editor Swasti Rao, Roubanis discusses Turkish military support to Pakistan, 5th generation Kaan project, the China factor in Ankara - Islamabad equation & relationship between Turkey, China and the Gulf. - YouTube Comment.

I watched this whole interview and I have to say that I was correct in my assessment that every Indian is slight degree full supportative of the Right Wing Hindutva Nationalist politically.

This interview was conducted by the "The Print" a more "moderate" Indian news media-house, but the host in their typical Indian manner conducted the interview implicit confirmation biases that Ilya Roubanis skillfully sidestepped and corrected the host, Swasti Rao.

My own key takeaways from this interview:

• The Indian host, Swasti Rao the kept interjecting and rudely interrupting Ilya Roubanis
• Acted shocked when Iiya mentioned that Pakistan has sent 150 engineers to the Kaan project and isn't just there with their "hands open."
• The Indian host snidely claimed that Pakistan is the epicenter of Global terrorism (LOL).
• The Indian host repeatedly kept bringing up the OP Sindoor. It felt like a drinking game in college whenever you hear a certain word, you take a shot etc.
• the Indian host claims that for India, UAE is very important- the guest, IIya added that for UAE, India is also very important (thereby implying don't think of yourself as high and mighty).
• The Indian host was shocked when the guest mentioned the quality of Pakistanis from the Pilots in the Gulf Airforces to their understanding of the Chinese military doctrine and experiences.
• The Indian host tried to claim that Turkey will sell their S400 to Pakistan, at which point the guest said that likely will not since Pakistan's doctrine is different from the S400 can and will bring.
• The Indian host would repeatedly ask “innocent” questions but it was obviously to the Greek guest that there was an agenda.
• The Indian host either genuinely doesn't know anything about Pakistan and clearly believes in the BJP/Bollywood propaganda that Pakistan is a backward, broke nation and can be easily pushed around.
• She was acting and playing mind games with the gentleman trying to present an image of a Pakistan that supports terrorism and is backwards.
• Tried to brag about downing Turkish drones to the Guest.

Overall, the Greek guest was very knowleadage about Pakistan and the Indian Host was incredibly rude.

One of the more insightful comments on this video:
"
The host is surprised by basic facts about pakistan capability. This just shows Indian arrogance and denial. Putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalala at the mention of pakistan is not a military strategy. This is precisely what gets you disgraced on the battlefield when your whole fleet of fighter jets has to be grounded for 2 days in a four day clash. As ou try and figure out what went wrong.And then interrupting the guest by saying childish things like … we downed their Turkish drones just shows your level. Of seriousness and lack of sincerity and your basic desperation. lol, drones are not fighter jets. It is assumed they will get shot down. Their purpose is different to a …. Emmm… Rafael? Lol"

I read Shashi Tahroor's India From midnight to millennium when it first came out in early 2000's. In this book, he was rationalizing and justifying the rise of Hindutva movement and their atrocities. I knew then that all hindu Indians, except for a few fringe ones like Arundati Roy are onboard with the hindutva project.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I read Shashi Tahroor's India From midnight to millennium when it first came out in early 2000's. In this book, he was rationalizing and justifying the rise of Hindutva movement and their atrocities. I knew then that all hindu Indians, except for a few fringe ones like Arundati Roy are onboard with the hindutva project.

I mean it only takes simple observational skills to realise this, unlike extremism perpetuated in most third world countries, Indian religious fundamentalism is perpetuated by their middle-upper-ruling class, the same people with the capacity to decide their country's fate and shape their politics & socioeconomic environment. And it is all driven by insecurity and feelings of inferiority, it's reactionary.

Meanwhile the extremism in say Pakistan, is peddled by 'street thugs' which many times the government itself struggles to control. Take Lal Masjid incident for example. Despite personal opinion, the government had to use force to restrain them.

 

[PakistanLVR]

I read Shashi Tahroor's India From midnight to millennium when it first came out in early 2000's. In this book, he was rationalizing and justifying the rise of Hindutva movement and their atrocities. I knew then that all hindu Indians, except for a few fringe ones like Arundati Roy are onboard with the hindutva project.

I said it multiple times on this site, they are all for a Hindu led South Asia as they see it as some sort of destiny. An extension of the British Raj. Ms. Roy is very respectful woman, the others are there as a way to sanitize Hindu extremism into a nice package for the Ph*agot Liberals in the West so they can j*rk eachothers off on "Secular" values.

 

[Cash gk]

Guys,let me get some burgers,read the entire OP thread and all the comments and reply.

This seems exciting. Thanks @hydrabadi_arab for tagging me,man

You seem to be really enjoying all this praise looks like It has awakened some Greek nationalism in you! Go on, enjoy your burger while reading all these lovely comments from Pakistanis. Honestly, so much in life is difficult, but have you noticed how easy it is to make friends with Pakistanis? It just comes naturally!