PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

Pakistanithinktank said:
.... We’ve seen no substantial updates on programs like AZM, KAAN, PFX, or PFXX, and even the planned upgrade from JF-17 Block II to Block III seems to be in limbo.
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Azm is shelved, can't keep up with KAAN and PFX is a dream as confirmed by Bilal Sahib and others here.

No Block-1 or Block-2 is going to be upgraded to Block-3. They'll go through MLU and retire.
 
Deino said:
No, I did not say it, I only that my by own standard his (@maverick) claim it will come in 2035/36 is late.

Just to be clear again: I never denied Pakistan will get J-35. All I oppose are claims it will come in 2025/26 aka even before the PLAAF itself has them in service! Per my guess I see - depending political decisions - anything before 2027 as unlikely, but 2028 as indeed possible.
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Well I have been following Deino faily closely on this Forum. And one thing I have learnt which is 100% true is that whatever Deino says, EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF IT HAPPENS. :D

So I am happy to say that J-35s will be arriving soon just because Deino said they are NOT arriving soon.
 
Pakistan Space Agency said:
Azm is shelved, can't keep up with KAAN and PFX is a dream as confirmed by Bilal Sahib and others here.

No Block-1 or Block-2 is going to be upgraded to Block-3. They'll go through MLU and retire.
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You mean Pakistan is going to build more Block 3 maybe upto 100 units more retire older unit right?
 
Pakistan Space Agency said:
Azm is shelved, can't keep up with KAAN and PFX is a dream as confirmed by Bilal Sahib and others here.

No Block-1 or Block-2 is going to be upgraded to Block-3. They'll go through MLU and retire.
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That depends on what the "MLU" entails. As an example, the F-16 MLU included changes to radar and avionics. Why the PAC would not do the same for blk 1 & 2 and get those aircraft up to blk3 spec. to get the entire fleet on the same spec. escapes logic if what you are saying is accurate.
 
Blain2 said:
That depends on what the "MLU" entails. As an example, the F-16 MLU included changes to radar and avionics. Why the PAC would not do the same for blk 1 & 2 and get those aircraft up to blk3 spec. to get the entire fleet on the same spec. escapes logic if what you are saying is accurate.
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According many here, the Block-1 and Block-2 frames are different to Block-3 and cannot incorporate all the advances of Block-3s.

@arslank01 @JamD @Oscar

Could you brothers shed some light on this. Is it the current structure of Block-1 &2 that make it infeasible to convert these to Block-3.
 
Blain2 said:
Why the PAC would not do the same for blk 1 & 2 and get those aircraft up to blk3 spec. to get the entire fleet on the same spec.
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I am not familiar with the upgrade plans for the PAF's JF-17B1/B2.
However, I believe that upgrading them would not be cost-effective.

The JF-17B3 is not cheap; it is significantly more expensive than the JF-17B1/B2. The primary cost lies in the avionics systems, while the cost of the fighter aircraft itself is not particularly high. The PAF's JF-17B1/B2 have been in service for many years, and the remaining airframe lifespan does not justify the cost of upgrading them.

This is somewhat akin to upgrading a computer. If you replace the CPU, motherboard, memory modules, hard drive, and so on, is there any need to keep the old case?

At the same time, the JF-17B3 needs to be equipped with more advanced engines to fully utilize the capabilities of its avionics system. The current RD-93 engine has become the biggest weakness of the JF-17B3.

If the WS-21 can be successfully adapted for the JF-17B3, combined with the FC-31 (WS-21) purchased by the PAF, this will provide the PAF with significant maintenance cost advantages. At the same time, the performance of the JF-17B3 will also be significantly enhanced.
 
Pakistan Space Agency said:
According many here, the Block-1 and Block-2 frames are different to Block-3 and cannot incorporate all the advances of Block-3s.

@arslank01 @JamD @Oscar

Could you brothers shed some light on this. Is it the current structure of Block-1 &2 that make it infeasible to convert these to Block-3.
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Block 1's will be retired, block 2's will be updated.

JamD notes a very interesting little detail to look out for.

If you ever want to know when a JF-17 is upraded to Block 3 standards, look at its LEF. If they are composite, you have a block 3. If they are standard metal, then youve got an earlier block.

The reason for this is the JF-17b3 IMO carries its internal ECM arrays in the leading edge flaps.

1750684258696.png

You can see here. IIRC it carries 4 arrays per LEF.

In terms of upgrades, i think it also has alot to do with airframe life. These birds fly, alot at that too, block 1's dont have a ton of life left in them.
 
Good review from the first buyer. Guess who he is?
They are already training in China?
8c0cacb1a45d4fdc0d69dfcc05fcc4b2.jpg
 
I wish the PAF goes all 4.5 and 4.5++ and 5 gen with minimum number of fighter aircraft 350 upto 2030
 
Pakistan Space Agency said:
According many here, the Block-1 and Block-2 frames are different to Block-3 and cannot incorporate all the advances of Block-3s.

@arslank01 @JamD @Oscar

Could you brothers shed some light on this. Is it the current structure of Block-1 &2 that make it infeasible to convert these to Block-3.
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I know for a fact that the block differences in JF-17 are nothing like the ones between the F/A-18 Hornet and the SuperHornet for example where the entire air frame size was increased etc.

From what I know, the JF-17 air frames are common across the 3 blocks. The difference is in the avionics, radar and weapons integration. These are all things that can be addressed through an MLU. However, what PAF has to evaluate is if the MLU investment can be recouped through the remaining years left in the airframe life (F-16 MLU and STAR upgrades extended our F-16 life by an additional 8000 hours, can/should PAF do that given the rapid changes in the emerging threat scenario?). Second, the service will also need to think about whether the MLU upgrade delivers a greater return on investment than putting the money on more J-10s and/or J-35s.
 
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Michael said:
I am not familiar with the upgrade plans for the PAF's JF-17B1/B2.
However, I believe that upgrading them would not be cost-effective.

The JF-17B3 is not cheap; it is significantly more expensive than the JF-17B1/B2. The primary cost lies in the avionics systems, while the cost of the fighter aircraft itself is not particularly high. The PAF's JF-17B1/B2 have been in service for many years, and the remaining airframe lifespan does not justify the cost of upgrading them.

This is somewhat akin to upgrading a computer. If you replace the CPU, motherboard, memory modules, hard drive, and so on, is there any need to keep the old case?

At the same time, the JF-17B3 needs to be equipped with more advanced engines to fully utilize the capabilities of its avionics system. The current RD-93 engine has become the biggest weakness of the JF-17B3.

If the WS-21 can be successfully adapted for the JF-17B3, combined with the FC-31 (WS-21) purchased by the PAF, this will provide the PAF with significant maintenance cost advantages. At the same time, the performance of the JF-17B3 will also be significantly enhanced.
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Why would Pakistan go for an interim engine like the WS-21 when the J-35’s intended engines WS-19 are ready?
 
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