PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

[MastanKhan]

Certainly, I believe another lesson learned was that in order to hit an adversary many times of your size, you need a bigger punch. Point in case, Tiny Israel operating a large fleet of F-15s to hammer its enemy. PAF clearly lacks a similar platform. We always look at our size and justify that Oh we don't need heavy fighters but I wonder why don't we look at the size of adversary which we need to hit? Flankers are a big NO for PAF as Russia will not sell Pakistan and China can't provide us with due to their agreement with Moscow. A solution is required here or we will have to increase the numbers of Thunders and J-10s substantially like once China did with its J-7s and J-8s back in the day when J-10 was in development.

Hi,

Paf has a different perception of success than the israelis or the americans---.

Where the israelis will go in with complete annihilation of the opponent and the americans will go for the shock and awe---the PAF will be over excited for letting the enemy escape with full flotilla and they will equate it to the ultimate success.

And then the Paf will dance and prance and strut around like they have won the final conflict---.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Hi,

Paf has a different perception of success than the israelis or the americans---.

Where the israelis will go in with complete annihilation of the opponent and the americans will go for the shock and awe---the PAF will be over excited for letting the enemy escape with full flotilla and they will equate it to the ultimate success.

And then the Paf will dance and prance and strut around like they have won the final conflict---.

Hate to say it but this time around IAF played well at strategic level in communication to the world. They arrived at the conclusion late but they arrived at correct one that losses are part of the game but the actual point is that they achieved their intended targets first against terrorists and then against PAF. I agree with you on this strange bravado that we had X number of planes locked but we let them go ... Question is WHY? You could have hit all of those and then de-escalate next morning leaving IAF in complete distress. But first PAF let them escape (if the locking lot more IAF jets narrative is true) and then for entire 2 days, PAF was nowhere in action while Indians were hitting one base after another and on 10th when finally much promised response came, it left more questions than answers!

 

[FuturePAF]

Off topic, but a scaled up version of the Rasoob-250 with a ~450kg warhead and a similar mechanism of a jettisoned nose cone for precise IIR targeting can build a potent domestic equivalent to the SCALP.

And a lighter version around ~230-250kg warhead for more tactical strikes similar to Turkey's SOM series. Could explore different types of warheads like the BROACH for penetration.

Cruising at around Mach ~0.85 optimised for stealth.

Would be a potent family of 3 size variants paired with modular warhead types.

@FuturePAF

View attachment 130837

Instead of jettison nose cone, a seeker fitted to the nose at an angle can leave space for multiple types of seekers.

 

[CSAW]

 

[farooqbhai]

Sargodha, Murid and Nur Khan were not Brahmos.

Afaik Sargodha was mix of Scalp and Brahmos, the ones that managed to hit there was brahmos while atleast 2 scalp were intercepted enroute to Sargodha.
Also there was atleast 1 Rampage downed west of Lahore, not sure what its intended target was.

 

[Reichmarshal]

our AD did alright.
indians fired salvos of just 10-12 brahmos at each target, in addition to other ordinance..
The damage caused was superficial at best, tjhat in it slef proves the effectiveness of our AD

 

[Oscar]

our AD did alright.
indians fired salvos of just 10-12 brahmos at each target, in addition to other ordinance..
The damage caused was superficial at best, tjhat in it slef proves the effectiveness of our AD

Not exactly when it comes to Bholari.
It was actually luck and Brahmos extremely poor turning radius that saved the asset damage.

Same goes for Nur Khan.

Saturation has its impacts but overall the amount of effort they put in with rather decent textbook attack profiles should have gotten them more returns.

Unfortunately, they have proof - Pakistanis have each other’s congratulations at best for now.

 

[Bratva]

Not exactly when it comes to Bholari.
It was actually luck and Brahmos extremely poor turning radius that saved the asset damage.

Same goes for Nur Khan.

Saturation has its impacts but overall the amount of effort they put in with rather decent textbook attack profiles should have gotten them more returns.

Unfortunately, they have proof - Pakistanis have each other’s congratulations at best for now.

Southern region airdefense had mediocre performance. Bholari and Malir cantt both got hits from Brahmos/SCALPS.

My assumption, majority of AD were Punjab/Kashmir facing. But that didnt stop Punjab and Kashmir military assets from getting hits.

 

[the vicious kind]

Although, Pakistan’s air defense did demonstrated its capability to intercept or jam advanced munitions like the BrahMos, SCALP, and Rampage. However, a critical shortcoming remained, we dont have them enough of them. We have like 9 HQ-16 Batteries and maybe 3 HQ-9P systems.

To effectively counter saturation strikes and ensure layered defense, there is a pressing need to expand our inventory, particularly with more HQ-16 and HQ-9 systems. If we can get scores of type-62e from China, that would make for a truly layered AD network.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Not exactly when it comes to Bholari.
It was actually luck and Brahmos extremely poor turning radius that saved the asset damage.

Same goes for Nur Khan.

Saturation has its impacts but overall the amount of effort they put in with rather decent textbook attack profiles should have gotten them more returns.

Unfortunately, they have proof - Pakistanis have each other’s congratulations at best for now.

that may also be due to limited number of HQ-9 and HQ-16?

 

[MastanKhan]

Although, Pakistan’s air defense did demonstrated its capability to intercept or jam advanced munitions like the BrahMos, SCALP, and Rampage. However, a critical shortcoming remained, we dont have them enough of them. We have like 9 HQ-16 Batteries and maybe 3 HQ-9P systems.

To effectively counter saturation strikes and ensure layered defense, there is a pressing need to expand our inventory, particularly with more HQ-16 and HQ-9 systems. If we can get scores of type-62e from China, that would make for a truly layered AD network.

Hi,

For that very reason---hindsight---as many as possible---enemy aircraft should have been taken out---.

If the Paf had taken the number claimed that they could---Paf would have proceeded with the sead and dead missions---the enemy would have been helplessly paralyzed after the shock of a massive loss and would have not been able to do much---.

The failure of the Paf to complete its job gave another way for the enemny to tackle pakistan---.

Another major failure of the Paf---.

 

[RescueRanger]

Bhramos were fired in Sargodha:



I believe they provide the PCBs.

 

[Kyussis]

Another unverified lol

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

These would have suffered the same faith as Iran's S-300PMU2s and Bavar-373s had Iran had them two weeks ago. Iran's AD was taken out by micro drones and Commando teams with Spike top attack anti tank missiles.

 

[StormBreaker]

Bhramos were fired in Sargodha:
View attachment 131485
View attachment 131486
View attachment 131487
I believe they provide the PCBs.

Email is mentioned, You know the drill

 

[Oscar]

Southern region airdefense had mediocre performance. Bholari and Malir cantt both got hits from Brahmos/SCALPS.

My assumption, majority of AD were Punjab/Kashmir facing. But that didnt stop Punjab and Kashmir military assets from getting hits.

I believe the leadership was not expecting the full breath of the attacks and was focused on a LoC focused engagement.
The entire episode left the leadership rattled from a "this escalated quickly" aspect.

The level of saturation used was bound to let something in the door - AD has and is Pakistan's weakest link that stems from dogmatic thinking by boomers all the way to Gen X.


Just 15-16 years ago you had full bird army tankers claiming they dont need AD beyond Anza's because "The F-16s will take care of everything". CONOPS were from the 1960s even after the mauling they took at Longewalla.