Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

As much as one can. And the homework for that should be in peace time. Locations, intelligence, etc.

And from doctrine perspective too.

Bilal bhai, what platform can we use to neutralize that threat? Are our missiles good enough and accurate enough? Do we have them in sufficient numbers? From what I’ve read in the last couple of pages of this thread, Pakistan is far behind India in missile technology. And now India has realized they shouldn’t rely on their air force. This time, they’ll launch missiles at us first, targeting PAF assets and airbases, because our conventional offensive capability relies heavily on the PAF. Our conventional Fatah missiles aren’t that great compared to India’s. India is working on hypersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic glide vehicles, and they’re also integrating these into nuclear submarines. Pakistan has a lot of work to do to achieve conventional deterrence this time.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

You think their will be any changes in our doctrine?.
Considering the official version of things not the unofficial stuff the response was weak especially that of 8,9&10th may.
Another thing to consider is the euphoria of victory in the armed forces.
The success of our AD and Air force. I worried they might take the indians lightly.

This is also what I'm worried about. If you see other countries (China, India, US in the pacific region, etc) – they've been refining their command structures and building an integrated warfighting command across the tri-services based on superior situational awareness.

For example the Chinese have a new concept, an integrated system-of-systems approach to unify all their military services.

So apart from a weapons arsenal, in terms of practical war planning, and integrated operations & commands — our doctrine and planning seems to be severely outdated & lethargic.

The military establishment might get too complacent and arrogant with 2019/2025 successes, we do have a history of being too late to the party and extremely complacent, instead of forward-thinking long-term smart planning.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/online-analysis/2024/05/chinas-new-information-support-force/

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Bilal bhai, what platform can we use to neutralize that threat? Are our missiles good enough and accurate enough? Do we have them in sufficient numbers? From what I’ve read in the last couple of pages of this thread, Pakistan is far behind India in missile technology. And now India has realized they shouldn’t rely on their air force. This time, they’ll launch missiles at us first, targeting PAF assets and airbases, because our conventional offensive capability relies heavily on the PAF. Our conventional Fatah missiles aren’t that great compared to India’s. India is working on hypersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic glide vehicles, and they’re also integrating these into nuclear submarines. Pakistan has a lot of work to do to achieve conventional deterrence this time.

For our tactical missiles, they are getting better and they are fairly accurate, their CEP is down to 10m. You can see this in the tests below:

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But the key is not just range and accuracy, those do matter, but you need survivability, so they can reliably penetrate dense air defences and successfully hit their target. This requires features like stealth and high degree of maneuverability.

However, they are new, and Pakistan didn't expect both sides to start lobbing missiles, so hasn't built a large inventory currently.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

For our tactical missiles, they are getting better and they are fairly accurate, their CEP is down to 10m. You can see this in the tests below:

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But the key is not just range and accuracy, those do matter, but you need survivability, so they can reliably penetrate dense air defences and successfully hit their target. This requires features like stealth and high degree of maneuverability.

However, they are new, and Pakistan didn't expect both sides to start lobbing missiles, so hasn't built a large inventory currently.

yes they are made accurate and now also increasing their ranges but will they be able to penetrate? as you mentioned stealth and high degree of maneuverability that is the issue also the speed with which they can travel and reach.

 

[falcon34]

This is also what I'm worried about. If you see other countries (China, India, US in the pacific region, etc) – they've been refining their command structures and building an integrated warfighting command across the tri-services based on superior situational awareness.

For example the Chinese have a new concept, an integrated system-of-systems approach to unify all their military services.

So apart from a weapons arsenal, in terms of practical war planning, and integrated operations & commands — our doctrine and planning seems to be severely outdated & lethargic.

The military establishment might get too complacent and arrogant with 2019/2025 successes, we do have a history of being too late to the party and extremely complacent, instead of forward-thinking long-term smart planning.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/online-analysis/2024/05/chinas-new-information-support-force/

Dude we already have an integrated fighting command, the shoot down of Indian jets in their own territory proves that
What I was talking about was doctrine, riposte doesn't apply any more will we go from offense defense to full on preemptive offense.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

yes they are made accurate and now also increasing their ranges but will they be able to penetrate? as you mentioned stealth and high degree of maneuverability that is the issue also the speed with which they can travel and reach.

Yes, speed, stealth, maneuverability. The trinity of penetration.

This is why hypersonic glide weapons (like China's DF-17 and US' LRHW) are important, because they travel at speeds greater than Mach >5 while highly maneuverable, so they are survivable against advanced air defences.

HCM are similar in concept, travelling at speeds of Mach >6-8, with degrees of maneuverability, it makes them harder to intercept.

It is the low speed systems, like the sub-sonic cruise missiles that try to penetrate air defence through utilising stealth and low-flying altitude to hide from radars. But their slow speed still makes them vulnerable. Their advantage is they are cheaper so can form the bulk of your inventory, in a hi-lo mix.

Like the AGM-158:

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Dude we already have an integrated fighting command, the shoot down of Indian jets in their own territory proves that
What I was talking about was doctrine, riposte doesn't apply any more will we go from offense defense to full on preemptive offense.

We don't have a proper one, we just have a joint staffs committee, how mature is their integration during wartime for integrated operations over long periods?

Also these types of joint warfighting commands are what form proper doctrines and protocols by analysing the situation strategically from a birds-eye view

 

[gamaji]

TBH they are very depressed people here who actually know nothing these people think pak would be using junky predictable BMs to deliver Strategic nuclear warheads.
This really baffles me like who can be such deluded and self hating to even think that to those fools I will leave a picture of a pak missile from early 2000sView attachment 132095
The problem with pakis is they love theatrics. If our nuclear delivery systems are such a junk than why hasn't India called our bluff?.
Be a sane man, don't be a dum dum

They might not be depressed people but those with with an assignment. Doval created a big network of his dogs. Not everyone necessarily belongs to that network. But you don't really know who's who on a public but still a sensitive forum like this one.

 

[the vicious kind]

Pakistan appears poised for the next evolution in its surface-to-surface missile (SSM) capabilities. While it's true that we currently lag behind some regional players in missile technology, there are sound strategic reasons behind this measured pace of development.
1. Limited Threat from Existing Missile Defense Systems
India’s anti-ballistic missile (ABM) program, though noteworthy, is still in a relatively immature phase. It's far from being on par with advanced systems like THAAD, Arrow-3, or the SM-3. Even the much publicized S-400, has shown vulnerabilities against HIMARS in Ukraine.

Given this, Pakistan hasn’t seen a compelling need to invest billions into advancing its SSM capabilities, particularly when there was no credible or effective ABM threat to counter. H

2. Air Power is still the Primary Conventional Strike Platform
Pakistan has never viewed SSMs as the cornerstone of its conventional strike doctrine. Which has always belonged to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). In a conventional setting, SSMs have limited utility. They're most effective for saturation attacks or hitting high-value targets (HVTs), but they lack the flexibility, reusability, and cost-efficiency of air-delivered munitions.

For example, an F-16 can deliver two Mk-84 bombs (a total of 2 tons of explosives) at a cost of under $60,000. Achieving the same effect with a ballistic missile would cost at least $5 million and the platform wouldn’t be reusable.

This is why Pakistan has historically prioritized investment in its air force over its missile forces—mirroring, to some extent, China's own military doctrine. Despite China's impressive Rocket Force, it continues to pour resources into building a modern, versatile, and survivable air force.

 

[falcon34]

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This is what has been itching me, the penchod dumb fk indians have took one thing that worked for them in may that's missiles,
How fk do we even know the missiles headed towards us are conventional or nuclear.
I really hope pak is prepared, the picture ahead looks grim

 

[arjunk]

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This is what has been itching me, the penchod dumb fk indians have took one thing that worked for them in may that's missiles,
How fk do we even know the missiles headed towards us are conventional or nuclear.
I really hope pak is prepared, the picture ahead looks grim

Indian ballistic missile launches are considered by default to be nuclear, and will most likely result in Pakistan's nuclear retaliation.

Then again, the average IQ of India is 76 (below 80 is considered mentally retarded), and being a democracy, its civilian supremacist government is truly a representative of the average Indian.

Let's hope the slow babus of Pakistan are not living in lala-land, and are prepared for any eventuality.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

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This is what has been itching me, the penchod dumb fk indians have took one thing that worked for them in may that's missiles,
How fk do we even know the missiles headed towards us are conventional or nuclear.
I really hope pak is prepared, the picture ahead looks grim

Simple, the missiles under Indian strategic forces command are all declared nuclear assets. Same reason why Pakistan didn't use much missiles as most of your stockpile is declared nuke carriers, leaving behind only Fateh.

Pralay for example is a declared conventional quasi-ballistic missile.

Shaurya is to be expected

It is under strategic forces command, it's not a conventional missile.

HCM will never happen Russians won't giveaway their prized strategic assets,

We're not onboarding them for our hypersonic cruise missile. They're offering Zircon as BrahMos-II with Indian upgrades like Oniks is BrahMos with Indian upgrades. Anyways we've demonstrated 1000 seconds of continuous scramjet engine run (afaik no country so far has done that), and demonstrated scramjet missile tech demonstrator HSTDV. Vishnu is completely our own project.

HGV is quite possible.

We've already tested HGV missile LR-AShM multiple times, our own unique design.

 

[SMC]

I wonder if Pakistan was caught off guard with India launching Brahmos - they were likely expecting IAF to be leading the attack. Couldn't Shaheen 1A fill a role similar to Brahmos? It's said to be Hypersonic, manoeuvrable, has stealth features, etc?

 

[Rebirth]

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This is what has been itching me, the penchod dumb fk indians have took one thing that worked for them in may that's missiles,
How fk do we even know the missiles headed towards us are conventional or nuclear.
I really hope pak is prepared, the picture ahead looks grim

Pakistan have cleared one thing to the world, if nuclear capable missiles are used / launched even with conventional weapons, it will be as nuclear threat and will be responded appropriately.

 

[Watandar]

I wonder if Pakistan was caught off guard with India launching Brahmos - they were likely expecting IAF to be leading the attack. Couldn't Shaheen 1A fill a role similar to Brahmos? It's said to be Hypersonic, manoeuvrable, has stealth features, etc?

Pakistan was indeed caught off guard by India climbing the escalation ladder so quickly and using BrahMos, a nuke capable weapon. Pakistanis could not tell if the BrahMos coming in were nukes or conventional. It was a highly irresponsible move by India and missing this point was a lost opportunity by Pakistani spokespeople.