Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Lulldapull]

Yeah................sure.........

We've all seen how Russia performs in Ukraine.

You take the depth of territory/ bloated junk loaded forces advantage (sheer numbers) out of the equation.......the big boys fight like little babies.......

Evidently, they got nothing.

 

[the saint]

unlike some baseless claims in this forum China has every reasons to help Iran...

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[battalion25]

I recall discussing with an Iranian defense enthusiast pre-covid I think it was around late 2018-ish it was actully a 3 way debate me, the Iranian defense enthusiast and another chinese poster.

It was during the time where most Iranians would tell you only about missiles and rockets some of them going to the length where they believed a missile could just wipe away an enemy effortlessly and war would somehow be over as the missiles would do to much damage and in the beginning I was not looking for the discussion but I told him that everything he knows about war is not correct politely.

The fact that it took two persons to tell someone this is not it and he didn´t move a centimeter is worrying and echo chambers aren´t good for the intellect.

We kept talking and a Chinese intervened hence the discussion became 3-way the Chinese who was somewhat of an expert on the matter told him that missiles will not win you any conflict nor give any significiant edge. The discussion then turned into UAE vs Iran in a hypothetical conflict 1v1 only. This was 7 years ago I told him that UAE´s air force would have free access over Tehren and all of Iranian population centers he countered with we will destroy all of UAE with missiles? But the question is how? I told him you can take out a build or 2 but not destory a nation with missiles but all in all my argument was that the UAE would be able to take out Iran´s air defense systems and have access over all of Iran and bomb Iran as much as they like. I also said they will take control over the Hormuz via fire control and be able to land a unit on the Iranian shore and keep hold onto that land as long as they have air superiority since that part of the country is dry land and open space with no x-factor of hiding from airstrikes but the Iranian enthusiast took this personal but I was only talking about it in the sense of military hardware and I was unbiased and the Chinese military enthusiast agreed with my take.


Fast forward 7 years later the event played out exactly like I said minute for minute to the point where it got little strange how precisely I got it. Israel was able to do everything I said.

My advise is to keep focussing on Missiles they do have some perks and never stop it but do add air force, air defense, jamming systems in fact several. If you engage someone like Israel again you gotta do your homework the Missiles did damage admittingly but they had the fire control and this is what Iran needs to change and re-claim the fire power.

With a robust airforce, radar systems, ADs and world class Jamming systems this 12 day skirmish would have looked entirely different you would have seen Israeli jets falling from the sky in great multitude´s.

But all in all the most important thing here for Iran is that this was blessing in disquise they will learn from this and it was a great experience as Iran will surely be back for many more rounds. Keep going and keep growing.

 

[Michael]

People here are engaging in wishful thinking that China will give Iran, Pakistan level ToT and strategic partnership.

Feelings are mutual, not one-sided.

If Iran wants to get the same treatment from China as Pakistan, you need to seriously study “how Pakistan treats China” first.

unlike some baseless claims in this forum China has every reasons to help Iran...

You need to be clear about the specifics of the “help”. ------ A diplomatic statement? Or a free gift of large quantities of advanced weapons? Help in the form of direct military involvement?

China's foreign ministry has already issued a public statement in support of Iran. All of China's foreign trade weapon systems are also open to Iran (normal trade). Such as After the war is over, if Iran needs humanitarian relief, I'm sure China will support that as well.

These measures are in line with the current China-Iran relations. If Iran wants further practical help, it needs to take some steps first to raise the level of mutual trust.

I recall discussing with an Iranian defense enthusiast pre-covid I think it was around late 2018-ish it was actully a 3 way debate me, the Iranian defense enthusiast and another chinese poster.

It was during the time where most Iranians would tell you only about missiles and rockets some of them going to the length where they believed a missile could just wipe away an enemy effortlessly and war would somehow be over as the missiles would do to much damage and in the beginning I was not looking for the discussion but I told him that everything he knows about war is not correct politely.

The fact that it took two persons to tell someone this is not it and he didn´t move a centimeter is worrying and echo chambers aren´t good for the intellect.

We kept talking and a Chinese intervened hence the discussion became 3-way the Chinese who was somewhat of an expert on the matter told him that missiles will not win you any conflict nor give any significiant edge. The discussion then turned into UAE vs Iran in a hypothetical conflict 1v1 only. This was 7 years ago I told him that UAE´s air force would have free access over Tehren and all of Iranian population centers he countered with we will destroy all of UAE with missiles? But the question is how? I told him you can take out a build or 2 but not destory a nation with missiles but all in all my argument was that the UAE would be able to take out Iran´s air defense systems and have access over all of Iran and bomb Iran as much as they like. I also said they will take control over the Hormuz via fire control and be able to land a unit on the Iranian shore and keep hold onto that land as long as they have air superiority since that part of the country is dry land and open space with no x-factor of hiding from airstrikes but the Iranian enthusiast took this personal but I was only talking about it in the sense of military hardware and I was unbiased and the Chinese military enthusiast agreed with my take.


Fast forward 7 years later the event played out exactly like I said minute for minute to the point where it got little strange how precisely I got it. Israel was able to do everything I said.

My advise is to keep focussing on Missiles they do have some perks and never stop it but do add air force, air defense, jamming systems in fact several. If you engage someone like Israel again you gotta do your homework the Missiles did damage admittingly but they had the fire control and this is what Iran needs to change and re-claim the fire power.

With a robust airforce, radar systems, ADs and world class Jamming systems this 12 day skirmish would have looked entirely different you would have seen Israeli jets falling from the sky in great multitude´s.

But all in all the most important thing here for Iran is that this was blessing in disquise they will learn from this and it was a great experience as Iran will surely be back for many more rounds. Keep going and keep growing.

Judging from the comments of our Iranian friends in this thread, it seems that most of them still haven't woken up to their problems.

Many Chinese civilian analyses believe that:
Later this year or early next year, Israel, with the support of the United States, will again launch an offensive campaign against Iran. And this time, the attack will be even more deadly.

 

[Sipahsalar]

Thinking Pakistan can sell jf17s to Iran or any other military support is nothing but a fantasy. Pakistan could not even finish the Iran Pakistan pipeline because of military pressure.

Iran will need to deal with China directly.

 

[OldTwilight]

I don't think their systems are worse, but Iran only invested in SAMs and missiles. The first got taken out without activation by insiders and that caused the second to be less effective. If we had time and money we should get China to revamp every aspect of our armed forces from top to bottom. Missiles are the only part we don’t need their help in, except help with accuracy. Even in SAMs they can help; we don't have anything similar to HQ-22 since B373 and Arman never entered service.

Chinese military is not as good as us in tactics and strategy , so why we should let revamp our military by them !?

off course they just have better air force than us , but who said their strategy and tactics are better than us !? our strategy was correct , but we didn't have tools to execute it correctly and we had a big security breach..

their air defense and missile force and AF doesn't have any real battle experience in past 50 years ... and who said they wouldn't lose part of their skies if they face same situation compare to us ....

Just look at Pakistan -India clash , except the first day air ambush by Pakistanis , the Indians had upper hand and Pakistan were forced to threaten to use nukes.

and Indian ls really didn't conduct any SEAD and DEAD mission against Pakistan AD and AF in first day of war , they came , fired their projectiles and when they were going back , get Ambushed by PAK air force ... Pakistanis were waiting for them ...

in latter days when India start to target Pakistan air base and AD system with UCAV and Brahmous , Pakistan didn't have any real response to them ....

India is far inferior than the Zion/USA in this context...

probably if India wanted to mimick Zion operation , first they would target long rage radars , then airbases to not let PAF operate freely and then focus their attack in north east of Pakistan and make an air corridor to IslamAbad then expand from there ....

side not: India signed a deal with the Zion in 2023 to produce LORA for Indian Air Force , so if Pakistan struggled against Brahmous then LORA would bet a nightmare for her

 

[OldTwilight]

iran military technology is far more advanced than china
iran can build all of the advanced air fighter by itself
Qaher313 will shot all of israel air fighters next time

well , If IR get through this war , They will put money on fighter program and we will see the result ... just like we saw the result of investment on BM programs

 

[Lulldapull]

well , If IR get through this war , They will put money on fighter program and we will see the result ... just like we saw the result of investment on BM programs

Exactly, the 313 is being advanced to the level of the AI Karar drone/ LM. Automated landings/ take offs already possible and typical CAP routine or Intercept mission also possible just like the Karrar drone via datalink.....GCI/ ISR input.

It'll take time, but that sure beats a manned platform which will be obsolete in less than a decade.

IRIB clips showed mounted gun cams on these drones take out many IDF drones with their sidwinder type mounted belly weapon in the last war. Maybe PG or somebody can search:

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[OldTwilight]

Exactly, the 313 is being advanced to the level of the AI Karar drone/ LM. Automated landings/ take offs already possible and typical CAP routine or Intercept mission also possible just like the Karrar drone via datalink.....GCI/ ISR input.

It'll take time, but that sure beats a manned platform which will be obsolete in less than a decade.

IRIB clips showed mounted gun cams on these drones take out many IDF drones with their sidwinder type mounted belly weapon in the last war. Maybe PG or somebody can search:

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back then, I suggested that if our turbofan version of J85 would only have 20 KN thrust, then we should have an air frame with 3 engine configurations and build something in part with J17, but our Iranians friends laugh at me, now Chinese 6th Gen fighter is using 3 engine configuration and everyone saying its genius and awesome ...

If there is will, then we can just ignore the limits and make weapon we need ... If Tehrani Moghaddam had this kind of mentality that our AF project manager have, we would only have Shahb 3 missiles ...

 

[Lulldapull]

back then, I suggested that if our turbofan version of J85 would only have 20 KN thrust, then we should have an air frame with 3 engine configurations and build something in part with J17, but our Iranians friends laugh at me, now Chinese 6th Gen fighter is using 3 engine configuration and everyone saying its genius and awesome ...

If there is will, then we can just ignore the limits and make weapon we need ... If Tehrani Moghaddam had this kind of mentality that our AF project manager have, we would only have Shahb 3 missiles ...

Iran used the Kararr drone to take down many IDF drones or quite possibly IDF aircraft. I saw clips on the tube. Looks like that Air chief Nasirzada is actually doing something for a change.

 

[vizier]

back then, I suggested that if our turbofan version of J85 would only have 20 KN thrust, then we should have an air frame with 3 engine configurations and build something in part with J17, but our Iranians friends laugh at me, now Chinese 6th Gen fighter is using 3 engine configuration and everyone saying its genius and awesome ...

If there is will, then we can just ignore the limits and make weapon we need ... If Tehrani Moghaddam had this kind of mentality that our AF project manager have, we would only have Shahb 3 missiles ...

2xJ85 can be installed on a drone as well for high subsonic near supersonic configuration as well. 5GAT drone below mimics stealth as a target drone with high subsonic speed and a better version can be developed basing on that airframe.

Drone That Mimics Enemy Stealth Fighters Ordered By DoD

The U.S. military needs a 5th Generation Aerial Target, or 5GAT, to replicate stealthy jets and missiles in tests and training.

www.twz.com

 

[ShapurII]

back then, I suggested that if our turbofan version of J85 would only have 20 KN thrust, then we should have an air frame with 3 engine configurations and build something in part with J17, but our Iranians friends laugh at me, now Chinese 6th Gen fighter is using 3 engine configuration and everyone saying its genius and awesome ...

If there is will, then we can just ignore the limits and make weapon we need ... If Tehrani Moghaddam had this kind of mentality that our AF project manager have, we would only have Shahb 3 missiles ...

It's stupid to laugh at something like this. After all, it's a valid solution.

But the problem is the mentality you brought up before. The IR does not want to spend money on the IRIAF and what you are offering is not only expensive to maintain, but also expensive and hard to operate as a stealth fighter for a large country like Iran.

Using three engines means higher fuel consumption, which reduces the operational range and also, it's harder to reduce the heat signature of the jet fighter. If we use three 20 kN engines, then a considerable weight that the aircraft lifts will be jet fuel, leaving little room for weaponry.

This is probably not the case with the Chinese as they have advanced engine technology. So, they are using three engines each with at least 90 kN of thrust. They probably have done this for improving the payload of their jet fighter.

 

[OldTwilight]

It's stupid to laugh at something like this. After all, it's a valid solution.

But the problem is the mentality you brought up before. The IR does not want to spend money on the IRIAF and what you are offering is not only expensive to maintain, but also expensive and hard to operate as a stealth fighter for a large country like Iran.

Using three engines means higher fuel consumption, which reduces the operational range and also, it's harder to reduce the heat signature of the jet fighter. If we use three 20 kN engines, then a considerable weight that the aircraft lifts will be jet fuel, leaving little room for weaponry.

This is probably not the case with the Chinese as they have advanced engine technology. So, they are using three engines each with at least 90 kN of thrust. They probably have done this for improving the payload of their jet fighter.

It was worst case scenario, from middle of 1390s if we wanted, we could build something in par with RD33 with getting help from Russia/China ... There was no will or money for it ...

After Russia-Ukraine war , Russia asked us for help , we gave them some weapons and in exchange we signed contract with Russia to have joint production of Su35 in Iran , So many source are claiming that Russia offered 24 Su35 produced for Egypt to Iran, but we didn't accept it and we wanted to assemble the birds in Iran and with new spare parts , so we cannot blame Russia for everything.

probably, joint production AL31 is part of the deal with Iran. We are in complete controller on subsystems so we would be able to integrate Su35 with Iranian system and weapons ...

I think one of the reasons that Israel attacked us , is because they see their window of opportunity is getting close till the end of 2025. Iran would integrate first batch of Su35 and new AD systems to its army ...

 

[Abdulaziz]

Chinese military is not as good as us in tactics and strategy , so why we should let revamp our military by them !?

off course they just have better air force than us , but who said their strategy and tactics are better than us !? our strategy was correct , but we didn't have tools to execute it correctly and we had a big security breach..

their air defense and missile force and AF doesn't have any real battle experience in past 50 years ... and who said they wouldn't lose part of their skies if they face same situation compare to us ....

Just look at Pakistan -India clash , except the first day air ambush by Pakistanis , the Indians had upper hand and Pakistan were forced to threaten to use nukes.

and Indian ls really didn't conduct any SEAD and DEAD mission against Pakistan AD and AF in first day of war , they came , fired their projectiles and when they were going back , get Ambushed by PAK air force ... Pakistanis were waiting for them ...

in latter days when India start to target Pakistan air base and AD system with UCAV and Brahmous , Pakistan didn't have any real response to them ....

India is far inferior than the Zion/USA in this context...

probably if India wanted to mimick Zion operation , first they would target long rage radars , then airbases to not let PAF operate freely and then focus their attack in north east of Pakistan and make an air corridor to IslamAbad then expand from there ....

side not: India signed a deal with the Zion in 2023 to produce LORA for Indian Air Force , so if Pakistan struggled against Brahmous then LORA would bet a nightmare for her

Honestly you can ask any expert American, Chinese, Turkish or of any nationality the consensus on the Indian-Pak flare-up in 2025 is that Pakistan got the upper hand on India this is the consensus. You can say both 2019 and 2025 the consensus is the same in these 2 small skirmishes Pakistan got the upper hand.

You have inflated and overrated Israeli airforce if they were to enter Chinese airspace they will be eaten up like powder cake. Chinese Technology has come a long way and here to stay.

According to Saudi sources the Americans will offer F-35 to the Royal air force but the Saudis want to buy FC-31 they somehow believe that the FC-31 outperforms the F-35 infact the Saudis believe that KAAN fighters will also outperform F-35 as F-35 has had alot of bad reputation behind the scenes with some customers not happy with it like the Japanese, Koreans and some other European countries. The Saudis will have more KAAN fighters and FC-31 then F-35

 

[OldTwilight]

Honestly you can ask any expert American, Chinese, Turkish or of any nationality the consensus on the Indian-Pak flare-up in 2025 is that Pakistan got the upper hand on India this is the consensus. You can say both 2019 and 2025 the consensus is the same in these 2 small skirmishes Pakistan got the upper hand.

You have inflated and overrated Israeli airforce if they were to enter Chinese airspace they will be eaten up like powder cake. Chinese Technology has come a long way and here to stay.

According to Saudi sources the Americans will offer F-35 to the Royal air force but the Saudis want to buy FC-31 they somehow believe that the FC-31 outperforms the F-35 infact the Saudis believe that KAAN fighters will also outperform F-35 as F-35 has had alot of bad reputation behind the scenes with some customers not happy with it like the Japanese, Koreans and some other European countries. The Saudis will have more KAAN fighters and FC-31 then F-35

Which country first threat to use nukes!? India or Pakistan!? What were Pakistan response to Brahmos!?

And why you bring KSA air force in this!? Should we get afraid!?

When Saddam used its ballistic missiles against us and targeted Tehran, IR decided to have best missile force in region and now we have it both in quality and in quantity. The Zions did the same thing with their air and drone force; we will have best air force in region in span of 20 years ...

IR is reactionary force, they feel the damage a modern air force and inflict on us, we will build our air force, add drone force and create best AD and strike package in the region ...