Trump said five Indian Jets were shot down

[Baibers_1260]

I guess the Indian public can tolerate the hit on the military, it’s part of the risk our forces sign up for. But if there's a major civilian attack linked to Pakistan based groups and the Indian government doesn’t respond, it might not stay in power the next round. That’s the real pressure, not your idea of deterrence, but public expectation for action.

Funny your Indian public didn't tolerate the Uri (2016) and Phulwama (2019) attacks.
But generally you are correct, maybe the tolerance level has grown since the "Indian public " are beating up their own CRPF jawans Link ( comrades of those who died so valiantly in Phulwama) in Mirzapur UP.
Hopefully we will see a regime change in the NEXT "New Normal" round regardless of the blood letting.

 

[Cash gk]

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[Baibers_1260]

This is actually a very good point, and is why diplomacy is important here

@Master Chief @vasanthm @TAC @Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Not really Yasser,
There is no scope for diplomacy. Unfortunately the issues are no longer territorial, terrorism or water resources. It is purely religious hatred of the worst kind . The India Pakistan enmity is FAR worse than any other conflict in the world, including the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Even THERE amidst the slaughter the Israeli and Hamas representatives have kept talking diplomatically in Doha Qatar and have exchanged prisoners.
This is NOT the case in the Pakistan India conflict.

Pakistan and Pakistanis are facing the same threat of extermination that the Indian Muslim minority in India is facing.

A close parallel with Nazi Germany,
1. Nazi Germany first eliminated the Jews within Germany for 6 years
2. As Nazi Germany attacked and occupied other nations the Jews in those countries were systematically rounded up and eliminated
3. The objective ( partially achieved) was the elimination of Jews from the earth.

The Indian objective regarding elimination of Muslims (currently limited to within India, Pakistan and Bangladesh) are identical,
The Manifesto:
India, through the manifesto of its ruling BJP party, its apex government sponsored religious body The Marg Darshak Samiti and its political wing the RSS has defined its objective of the elimination of 500 million Muslims throughout the subcontinent.
The strategy:
If the figure of a holocaust of 500 million seems fantastic then consider the fact that India has large stocks of chemical and biological weapons and can easily depopulate Bangladesh without retaliation. Pakistan is more difficult because of possible nuclear retaliation. There is a plan for Pakistan. Through a series of small conventional conflicts keeping the conflict just below the level of a nuclear response and with manipulated last minute foreign diplomatic intervention Pakistan's nuclear assets can be slowly degraded into irrelevance. The depopulation through non-contaminating chemical or biological weapons can be done with impunity.
Diplomacy ?
There is little reason for India to talk or consider diplomacy.
A "hot and cold " stance may be adopted to deceive Pakistan into lowering its guard and not protecting itself
India's regime, a crazed population engulfed in hatred and frenzy have their strategy laid out. Pakistan even if it realizes this has few options other than keeping China on its side but even this option has limited value if Pakistan fails to achieve at least a stalemate in future conventional conflicts or fails to protect its nuclear assets

To sum up, trusting in diplomacy is the worst option for Pakistan

 

[El Sidd]

@Master Chief @vasanthm @TAC @Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Not really Yasser,
There is no scope for diplomacy. Unfortunately the issues are no longer territorial, terrorism or water resources. It is purely religious hatred of the worst kind . The India Pakistan enmity is FAR worse than any other conflict in the world, including the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Even THERE amidst the slaughter the Israeli and Hamas representatives have kept talking diplomatically in Doha Qatar and have exchanged prisoners.
This is NOT the case in the Pakistan India conflict.

Pakistan and Pakistanis are facing the same threat of extermination that the Indian Muslim minority in India is facing.

A close parallel with Nazi Germany,
1. Nazi Germany first eliminated the Jews within Germany for 6 years
2. As Nazi Germany attacked and occupied other nations the Jews in those countries were systematically rounded up and eliminated
3. The objective ( partially achieved) was the elimination of Jews from the earth.

The Indian objective regarding elimination of Muslims (currently limited to within India, Pakistan and Bangladesh) are identical,
The Manifesto:
India, through the manifesto of its ruling BJP party, its apex government sponsored religious body The Marg Darshak Samiti and its political wing the RSS has defined its objective of the elimination of 500 million Muslims throughout the subcontinent.
The strategy:
If the figure of a holocaust of 500 million seems fantastic then consider the fact that India has large stocks of chemical and biological weapons and can easily depopulate Bangladesh without retaliation. Pakistan is more difficult because of possible nuclear retaliation. There is a plan for Pakistan. Through a series of small conventional conflicts keeping the conflict just below the level of a nuclear response and with manipulated last minute foreign diplomatic intervention Pakistan's nuclear assets can be slowly degraded into irrelevance. The depopulation through non-contaminating chemical or biological weapons can be done with impunity.
Diplomacy ?
There is little reason for India to talk or consider diplomacy.
A "hot and cold " stance may be adopted to deceive Pakistan into lowering its guard and not protecting itself
India's regime, a crazed population engulfed in hatred and frenzy have their strategy laid out. Pakistan even if it realizes this has few options other than keeping China on its side but even this option has limited value if Pakistan fails to achieve at least a stalemate in future conventional conflicts or fails to protect its nuclear assets

To sum up, trusting in diplomacy is the worst option for Pakistan

UN is dead and it took diplomacy with it to the grave.

 

[Master Chief]

@Master Chief @vasanthm @TAC @Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Not really Yasser,
There is no scope for diplomacy. Unfortunately the issues are no longer territorial, terrorism or water resources. It is purely religious hatred of the worst kind . The India Pakistan enmity is FAR worse than any other conflict in the world, including the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Even THERE amidst the slaughter the Israeli and Hamas representatives have kept talking diplomatically in Doha Qatar and have exchanged prisoners.
This is NOT the case in the Pakistan India conflict.

Pakistan and Pakistanis are facing the same threat of extermination that the Indian Muslim minority in India is facing.

A close parallel with Nazi Germany,
1. Nazi Germany first eliminated the Jews within Germany for 6 years
2. As Nazi Germany attacked and occupied other nations the Jews in those countries were systematically rounded up and eliminated
3. The objective ( partially achieved) was the elimination of Jews from the earth.

The Indian objective regarding elimination of Muslims (currently limited to within India, Pakistan and Bangladesh) are identical,
The Manifesto:
India, through the manifesto of its ruling BJP party, its apex government sponsored religious body The Marg Darshak Samiti and its political wing the RSS has defined its objective of the elimination of 500 million Muslims throughout the subcontinent.
The strategy:
If the figure of a holocaust of 500 million seems fantastic then consider the fact that India has large stocks of chemical and biological weapons and can easily depopulate Bangladesh without retaliation. Pakistan is more difficult because of possible nuclear retaliation. There is a plan for Pakistan. Through a series of small conventional conflicts keeping the conflict just below the level of a nuclear response and with manipulated last minute foreign diplomatic intervention Pakistan's nuclear assets can be slowly degraded into irrelevance. The depopulation through non-contaminating chemical or biological weapons can be done with impunity.
Diplomacy ?
There is little reason for India to talk or consider diplomacy.
A "hot and cold " stance may be adopted to deceive Pakistan into lowering its guard and not protecting itself
India's regime, a crazed population engulfed in hatred and frenzy have their strategy laid out. Pakistan even if it realizes this has few options other than keeping China on its side but even this option has limited value if Pakistan fails to achieve at least a stalemate in future conventional conflicts or fails to protect its nuclear assets

To sum up, trusting in diplomacy is the worst option for Pakistan

Pakistan's deep state leadership, political and military, are likely now, albeit belatedly, on the same page in terms of "trusting in diplomacy". Military and offensive non-military plans are certainly the only genuine options now for Pakistan.

Delhi means us harm.

Delhi seeks no cooperation with us or even compromise with us. Disturbingly, Delhi's 1.2 billion civilian "leadership" also actively seeks severance of perfectly harmless and innocent civilian ties with us (this sports, trade and cultural embargo with constant chatter of "isolation" refers precisely to this).

So be it.

As some have suggested on these very threads, the fact that the Congress mask has slipped over the last 2 decades, revealing the true state polity of hindutva that encompasses the underlying spiritual preference of both political parties in India, is very much a "good" thing for Pakistanis.

More Pakistanis than ever have now woken up to the reality of Delhi's 1000 year old PTSD, which somehow they have traced to Pakistan.

Again, this clarity is a good thing.

When many of us say that BJP's retention of power is a "good" thing for Pakistan, this is the elaboration of that implication - I.e. BJP makes it obvious for Pakistanis, while Congress deceives some of us.

Of course it isn't "good" that they smash mosques.

Of course it isn't "good" that they erase Mughal history from their syllabus.

Of course it isn't "good" that they poison Hindus against Muslims.

Of course it isn't "good" that they harm Kashmiris and their aspirations.

Of course it isn't "good" that they kill and maim Pakistanis and rejoice in the harm that befalls our civilian citizens, whether by chance or by nefarious design.

Frankly, it is uncivilised and barbaric behaviour.

What is "good" about BJP is that they make Delhi's position very clear - for the benefit of those Pakistanis who need additional help understanding the threat we face from our eastern border.

 

[Master Chief]

A "hot and cold " stance may be adopted to deceive Pakistan into lowering its guard and not protecting itself

Worth repeating this point of yours. This is very much a manifest truth.

 

[baqai]

If it was proven to be 7 planes this will be IAF's largest loss in air to air combat since 1965....

I think it would be biggest single loss of aircrafts by any modern airforce in a single day

 

[Ali_Baba]

Any update

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Very very funny video……

Change the words India to Pakistan, and China to India, and you are basically back to IWT issues that the Indians are trying to drive over with a bull dozer.


Hope the Indians appreciate the irony of this. lol.

 

[Scorpio]

I think it would be biggest single loss of aircrafts by any modern airforce in a single day

Interesting point is its was 7 vs 0 losses....
Which is not chewable for indian at all ...

 

[Cash gk]

What the hack Dj babu saying . Six number fighter was Mirage.

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[Cash gk]

Dj babu general bakshi

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[Yasser76]

Pakistan's deep state leadership, political and military, are likely now, albeit belatedly, on the same page in terms of "trusting in diplomacy". Military and offensive non-military plans are certainly the only genuine options now for Pakistan.

Delhi means us harm.

Delhi seeks no cooperation with us or even compromise with us. Disturbingly, Delhi's 1.2 billion civilian "leadership" also actively seeks severance of perfectly harmless and innocent civilian ties with us (this sports, trade and cultural embargo with constant chatter of "isolation" refers precisely to this).

So be it.

As some have suggested on these very threads, the fact that the Congress mask has slipped over the last 2 decades, revealing the true state polity of hindutva that encompasses the underlying spiritual preference of both political parties in India, is very much a "good" thing for Pakistanis.

More Pakistanis than ever have now woken up to the reality of Delhi's 1000 year old PTSD, which somehow they have traced to Pakistan.

Again, this clarity is a good thing.

When many of us say that BJP's retention of power is a "good" thing for Pakistan, this is the elaboration of that implication - I.e. BJP makes it obvious for Pakistanis, while Congress deceives some of us.

Of course it isn't "good" that they smash mosques.

Of course it isn't "good" that they erase Mughal history from their syllabus.

Of course it isn't "good" that they poison Hindus against Muslims.

Of course it isn't "good" that they harm Kashmiris and their aspirations.

Of course it isn't "good" that they kill and maim Pakistanis and rejoice in the harm that befalls our civilian citizens, whether by chance or by nefarious design.

Frankly, it is uncivilised and barbaric behaviour.

What is "good" about BJP is that they make Delhi's position very clear - for the benefit of those Pakistanis who need additional help understanding the threat we face from our eastern border.

You make many good points, but really important to remember Pak-India relations prior Modi and Hindutiva.

Vajpayee, Rajiv Gandhi and M Sing, although not perfect, were people one could talk to, they did not have followers poisened by hate.

 

[Yasser76]

I think it would be biggest single loss of aircrafts by any modern airforce in a single day

In air to air think PAF matched it in 1965 and Israel in 1973, but here, certainly for past 60 years or so

 

[Yasser76]

Interesting point is its was 7 vs 0 losses....
Which is not chewable for indian at all ...

Beyond that, a major revamp of the very ethos, strategy, thinking, training and equipment of IAF is in order.

Thankfully for Pakistan, they are in self denial mode, so rethink may well never happen, they are simply incapable of learning

 

[PK781]

Check out Indian Media.. they are converting this lose towards Pakistan....

even if they do that, its still their personnel that are dead and did not return to their homes. Let them deal with that and explain that to the families of the dead.

Beghairti levels are just top of the world. Hence the implosion from within is imminent and their own military is pissed at their govt for hiding losses.