Turkish Naval Programs

[BonPlan]

Turkey's pharaonic projects will eventually destroy their economy. They dream of at least 1 or 2 bigger aicraft carriers,8 destroyers,6 nuclear submarines and hundreds of 5th generation fighter jets,complimented by Eurofighter and upgraded F-16s. That will sink their budget.

I agree.
But we have to recognize that they are moving fast. Mainly by copy and past, but not only. It's quite impressive.
The judge will be money, and Erdogan follow on.

 

[Foinikas]

I agree.
But we have to recognize that they are moving fast. Mainly by copy and past, but not only. It's quite impressive.
The judge will be money, and Erdogan follow on.

Yes,extremely fast. We'll see how it goes.

 

[hyperman]

Turkey's pharaonic projects will eventually destroy their economy. They dream of at least 1 or 2 bigger aicraft carriers,8 destroyers,6 nuclear submarines and hundreds of 5th generation fighter jets,complimented by Eurofighter and upgraded F-16s. That will sink their budget.

Foinikas, Turkey is spending less than 2% on Defense right now. By the time NATO mandated 5% is implemented, there will be more than enough money. The Turkish economy is growing as one of the fastest in europe, and Turkey expects to export essentially everything its building. If and when Turkey builds these submarines, you don't think Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia and others will be interested? Who else will sell them this level of high tech? There is both money to be made as well as enough to provide for its own use.

 

[Nuffle]

Australia is a 5 eyes member. It helps ! (but not to reduce the bill....)

Brazil agreement is only about the hull. The reactor has to be brazilian.... and no news about it for years.

It is moving forward, but only slowly, due to the budget crisis facing the Brazilian Armed Forces:

Marinha avança na construção do Submarino Nuclear Convencionalmente Armado | Agência Marinha de Notícias

Ocorrido esta semana, Corte da Seção C Preliminar do casco resistente representa um passo relevante para o início da construção do Submarino, previsto para 2025

www.agencia.marinha.mil.br

Marinha do Brasil destaca avanços do submarino nuclear “Álvaro Alberto” na Voz do Brasil

Contra-Almirante Luiz Roberto Cavalcanti Valicente explica a importância do Submarino Nuclear Convencionalmente Armado para a defesa nacional

agenciagov.ebc.com.br

Programa de submarinos da Marinha encara desafio orçamentário em nova fase | CNN Brasil

Projeto de submarino nuclear precisaria de aporte adicional de R$ 1 bilhão por ano para manter cronograma de entrega em 2034 ou 2035

www.cnnbrasil.com.br

 

[Foinikas]

Foinikas, Turkey is spending less than 2% on Defense right now. By the time NATO mandated 5% is implemented, there will be more than enough money. The Turkish economy is growing as one of the fastest in europe, and Turkey expects to export essentially everything its building. If and when Turkey builds these submarines, you don't think Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia and others will be interested? Who else will sell them this level of high tech? There is both money to be made as well as enough to provide for its own use.

Yes I knew you'd pull the "just %" card.

However,operating a fleet with 2 or possibily 3 aircraft carriers,40 Eurofighter Tranche 4,
and a number 5th gen fighters that will is supposed to be in the hundreds and at the same time 8 modern frigates,8-9 destroyers and a fleet of more than 15 submarines,of which some are supposed to be nuclear ones",that would sink your economy.

Of course that's all theoretical and beyond 2030,but would be a big burden to the economy. Turkey isn't a country like the US,Russia,China.

 

[hyperman]

Yes I knew you'd pull the "just %" card.

However,operating a fleet with 2 or possibily 3 aircraft carriers,40 Eurofighter Tranche 4,
and a number 5th gen fighters that will is supposed to be in the hundreds and at the same time 8 modern frigates,8-9 destroyers and a fleet of more than 15 submarines,of which some are supposed to be nuclear ones",that would sink your economy.

Of course that's all theoretical and beyond 2030,but would be a big burden to the economy. Turkey isn't a country like the US,Russia,China.

Russia is not that big.

Russian GDP Nominal 2025: 2,076,396

Turkish GDP Nominal 2025: 1,437,406

The Turkish GDP will be much bigger by the time it comes to induct many of these things. Much of the things BTW will be sold abroad to Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia. Many older platforms will also be retired, so these things will be filling the gap.

Turkey is currently spending less than 2% GDP on defense currently at $25 Billion. If Turkey was spending 5% on GDP with the CURRENT GDP, then its defense spending would be higher than what France is currently spending overall.

I don't think it will be a significant issue, especially with growth. When you note that much of the spending due to indiginization is going to be spent internally and then the platforms will be exported, the defense sector is going to be a significant part of Turkey's economy anyways. This 5% BS Trump wants is in a funny way working toward Turkey's favor, as Turkey will just say, we are just doing what NATO says, instead of a 5% defense budget raising alarm in Europe about "Turkey's militarization" or whatever propaganda.

Greece spends 8 Bill at 3.1% then going to 5% for Greece is only 12.9 Billion, which is not the same impact of Turkey going from its less than 2% currently, to 5% NATO requirement. They would have to spend far over that 5% amount to remain competitive, but then thats whats really going to be the "Pharaonic" burden. b/c it will cause problems in Greece where they will have to cut other things to make up the balance or take on more debt, and none of that money is likely doing to recycled into Greece's economy b/c Greece doesn't usually build its own weapons, most of that money will probably be going to the French economy.

 

[Foinikas]

Russia is not that big.

Russian GDP Nominal 2025: 2,076,396

Turkish GDP Nominal 2025: 1,437,406

The Turkish GDP will be much bigger by the time it comes to induct many of these things. Much of the things BTW will be sold abroad to Saudi, Pakistan, Indonesia. Many older platforms will also be retired, so these things will be filling the gap.

Turkey is currently spending less than 2% GDP on defense currently at $25 Billion. If Turkey was spending 5% on GDP with the CURRENT GDP, then its defense spending would be higher than what France is currently spending overall.

I don't think it will be a significant issue, especially with growth. When you note that much of the spending due to indiginization is going to be spent internally and then the platforms will be exported, the defense sector is going to be a significant part of Turkey's economy anyways. This 5% BS Trump wants is in a funny way working toward Turkey's favor, as Turkey will just say, we are just doing what NATO says, instead of a 5% defense budget raising alarm in Europe about "Turkey's militarization" or whatever propaganda.

Greece spends 8 Bill at 3.1% then going to 5% for Greece is only 12.9 Billion, which is not the same impact of Turkey going from its less than 2% currently, to 5% NATO requirement. They would have to spend far over that 5% amount to remain competitive, but then thats whats really going to be the "Pharaonic" burden. b/c it will cause problems in Greece where they will have to cut other things to make up the balance or take on more debt, and none of that money is likely doing to recycled into Greece's economy b/c Greece doesn't usually build its own weapons, most of that money will probably be going to the French economy.

View attachment 136747

It's all theoretical,but these massive project seem more ambitious than realistic. When it comes to frigates and smaller ships,yes I know they need to be retired. Some of the submarines too,about 40 of the F-16s and all of the Phantoms too. So when it comes to that,it's a must for the Turkish MoD to replace them. But the excessive aircraft carrier and nukden projects seem a bit too much. As well as some analyst's (I've been trying to find the article and can't) need for 400-800 5th gen fighters.

 

[hyperman]

It's all theoretical,but these massive project seem more ambitious than realistic. When it comes to frigates and smaller ships,yes I know they need to be retired. Some of the submarines too,about 40 of the F-16s and all of the Phantoms too. So when it comes to that,it's a must for the Turkish MoD to replace them. But the excessive aircraft carrier and nukden projects seem a bit too much. As well as some analyst's (I've been trying to find the article and can't) need for 400-800 5th gen fighters.

If France can afford it, I think long term Turkey can afford it as well, as it will be a major part of the Turkish economy, Turkey in many ways will be a defense economy. with Defense exports making up a significant chunk of export revenue and industry production. When you look at it less as an acquisitions program, but a research and development program for export of goods, then its not simple as "defense spending".

A lot of these defense exports are btw done by Private companies. Bayraktar is funding its production by export sales, and its the top tax payer in Turkey. Going forwards, there will be several Bayraktars of the Turkish defense economy.

 

[MMM-E]

PKK terrorism is over
( Turkiye spent over $400 billion to fight PKK terrosim ) ..... Turkiye will no longer spend billions of Dollars every year fighting terrorism.


Turkiye discovered natural gas and oil
( Energy imports fell from $97 billion to $67 billion in 2023 and then to $65 bil in 2024 )

We have gas-oil reserves worth hundreds of billions of Dollars in the Eastern Mediterranean and we are also exploring for oil and natural gas in countries like Libya and Somalia

and Nuclear power plants will come into operation to reduce energy imports


Turkish Defense Industry is rising power
When all major military projects finished , Türkish Defense Industry will export $15-20 billion dollars annually in the near future

We will no longer import weapons from abroad at astronomical prices. We will produce them ourselves at much lower prices and even export them to make money


Turkiye will have over $2 trillion of GDP by 2035
that means annually $100 billion defense budget by 2035 ( spending to 5% of GDP )


A G-20 country like Turkiye won't face any financial difficulties. Military projects are much easier to finance after $1 trillion worth of public projects in the last 20 years

 

[Oublious]

Turkey's pharaonic projects will eventually destroy their economy. They dream of at least 1 or 2 bigger aicraft carriers,8 destroyers,6 nuclear submarines and hundreds of 5th generation fighter jets,complimented by Eurofighter and upgraded F-16s. That will sink their budget.

This is not Greece Foni, you are hoping for something like this but let me tell you that defence industry is seperate from Turkish economics. Last year 7 billion dollar weapons exported to the world. Next year 10+ billion dollar.

As an example the ammuniton off TB2 MAM series, they produce 500 every week non stop and still not able to feed the demands. All that big projects will be finalised over 10+ years and not next year. So stop thinking delisional and think about your own army and economy.

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[Foinikas]

This is not Greece Foni, you are hoping for something like this but let me tell you that defence industry is seperate from Turkish economics. Last year 7 billion dollar weapons exported to the world. Next year 10+ billion dollar.

As an example the ammuniton off TB2 MAM series, they produce 500 every week non stop and still not able to feed the demands. All that big projects will be finalised over 10+ years and not next year. So stop thinking delisional and think about your own army and economy.

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The world right now is very fragile and unpredictable. Erdogan has a tendecy to destroy everything again and again. Wars are brewing everywhere. Such plans seem like hybris and arrogance. That's what I can say.

 

[hyperman]

The world right now is very fragile and unpredictable. Erdogan has a tendecy to destroy everything again and again. Wars are brewing everywhere. Such plans seem like hybris and arrogance. That's what I can say.

On the contrary in the last two decades Turkey has gone leaps and bounds, Turkey has not been as powerful/influential as it currently is since Ottoman times. The defense industry is the most capable its been in the republican era, Turkey has played a decisive role in the Caucasus, in Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Syria. If anything, things are expanding, 30 years from now with the same momentum we may be seeing even more.

 

[Aziqbal]

there is news that Indonesia has signed for 2 x Istif class FFG

great news if true looks like Indonesia is a big spender on Turkish military equipment

 

[MMM-E]

So funny .. Greek PM thinks Greece can deal with Türkiye



Greek PM Mitcotakis
The issue is not what our neighbours are doing, but what we are doing. We have a serious strategic advantage. A year from now we'll have 3 ultra-modern Frigates

Meanwhile, in Turkiye
(1)MUGEM Aircraft Carrier (In the production phase)
(1+?) ANADOLU LHD/Drone carrier (1 was delivered)
(6)U214TN Submarine (5 of them are in production phase, 1 was delivered)(?)MILDEN Submarine (In production phase)
(?)NUKDEN nuclear Submarine (In concept design phase)
(8+)Tf2000 Destroyer (In the production phase)
(8) ISTIF Frigate (7 of them are in the production phase at present, 1 was delivered)
(10) HISAR OPV (2 of them were delivered, 6 of them are in the production phase)(1+10)FAC (In the production phase)
(4)Barbaros YÖM (3 frigates are in extensive upgrade phase, 1 were delivered)

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TCG ORUÇREİS Frigate took its place in the defense of the Blue Homeland

within the scope of the Barbaros Class Frigate Half-Life Modernization Project
( about €250 million

TCG Barbaros (F-244) Frigate
TCG Oruçreis (F-245) Frigate
TCG Salihreis (F-246) Frigate
TCG Kemalreis (F-247) Frigate

-- ADVENT Network Enabled Data Integrated Combat Management System
-- SMART-S Mk2 3D search radar
-- MAR-D 3D search radar
-- AKR-D fire control radar
-- AREAS-2 electronic warfare system
-- PİRİ infrared search and tracking system
-- Aselsan FERSAH Carina Mounted Sonar System
-- Aselsan HIZIR Torpedo counter measure System

1 X 127 mm Naval Gun
16 x ATMACA anti-ship Missiles
32/64 x ESSM SAMs
6 x Lightweight Torpedoes
-- Aselsan STOP 25mm Remote Controlled Stabilized Cannon System
-- GOKDENIZ 35 mm CIWS

 

[xbat]

This is a Fast attack craft with 700tons, we should put 2 tubes quad packed HisarD missiles on it, i hope one day some people agree with me. 10kms RAMs is not sufficent enough anymore. enemy can engage from 50-60 kms easily.