JF-17 PFX program

[falcon34]

I think SMASH and P282 are same. I could be wrong, but I will give you my reasoning for believing so. As far as PN CNS calling p282 as hypersonic, our military people sometimes use High-supersonic / hypersonic terms loosely. High supersonic is anything above Mach-2. Hypersonic is above mach 5. Just recently, AVM Aurangzeb told in presser during conflict that we have capability to stop hypersonic missiles. I am sure, he wanted to say High-supersonic (like Brahmos is high supersonic.). But anyways, let me tell you other reasons why both SMASH and P282 are same.

We were hearing for quite sometime (many yrs) that PN is building this missile P282 which will be used as main land attack / Ashm. Even heard for its storage facility. Now the name P282, definitely seems to be as an internal project name. Then we saw PN doing a test firing of a new missile it has developed, which they called SMASH. So it appears to me P282 was internal project name and SMASH is its proper name. Interestingly, PN didn't tested this missile from a land based launcher but actually integrated into Zulfiqar class frigate and fired from it. So another important point comes to mind, that if PN is developing a more advance hypersonic missile then why it built a less powerful missile and decided to equip warships first with SMASH missiles. Its not like we have lot of warships OR if every warship can carry 16+ missiles so we decided to have a hi-low mix of missiles. We have limited warships that can carry only 4 to 8 missiles max. It only makes sense to equip warships with your best Antiship missiles. It don't really make sense to first get into development cycle and produce a supersonic ASBM and equip warships with it and then after a small duration (few yrs) replace it with another.

So, it seems to me that P282 is infact SMASH. In addition, most of publications also considers these as same:

View attachment 135821

Lastly, I will be glad to be wrong on this one. As hypersonic would really be one super lethal arsenal.

Because of your zulfiqar class frigates they can't carry long range P282 missile, it's no optimally for it's launch tubes and sensors on it.
P282 is for Jinnah class and new frigates that were bought from china, they have the sensors and the launch capability, they had enhance capabilities of zulfiqar class and needed a fast survivable missile cheaper than a SCM so SMASH was logical step, it might still equip Jinnah and 54 type frigates but it will be lower end weapon.
Recently a F4 was tested too, my guess PA's F series and PN's P282 have been merged.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Your right, it may be J10 sized

But I think the PAF wants a plane that it can tinker with inside Pakistan, continue on it's development path making it's own radars, avionics and instruments, weapons etc and integrate on its own without any restrictions

Pakistan is lucky enough to have China and Turkey and they are on their own paths and we can get support from them due to our relationship with them

This is a sensible path for Pakistan and regardless of the effort needed and extra costs involved it's essential for the future of Pakistan otherwise we will always be a buyer

Considering what just happened with turks wrt euro fighter typhoon sales and hesitation to buy J-10cs... I think the Turks would also be interested in another 4.5 gen platform that doesn't come with strings attached... The market space is there... Azeris would love to compliment JF-17s with PFX as well... No Airforce would be able to afford complete 5th gen fleet let alone 6th gen.. so decision for PFX is good.. now will it be a larger JF-17 along the lines of F-2, strike aircraft along the lines of F-16 XL, or a completely new design with dual RD-93MAs.. interesting times ahead...

 

[hussain0216]

Considering what just happened with turks wrt euro fighter typhoon sales and hesitation to buy J-10cs... I think the Turks would also be interested in another 4.5 gen platform that doesn't come with strings attached... The market space is there... Azeris would love to compliment JF-17s with PFX as well... No Airforce would be able to afford complete 5th gen fleet let alone 6th gen.. so decision for PFX is good.. now will it be a larger JF-17 along the lines of F-2, strike aircraft along the lines of F-16 XL, or a completely new design with dual RD-93MAs.. interesting times ahead...

Exactly

I would also add, whilst defence sales are always a politically charged issue more then any other sale of any other product

Their is market space for a JF17/PFX for the vast majority of countries who don't have elite airforces but need planes that can cover every base, are multirole, can integrate and fire a wide range of weapons including BVRs

So the Uzbekistans, sudans, Kenya, Nigerias of the world

Initially JF17 may have been dismissed but it's now been around for close to 20 years and it's only getting better and more refined

Pakistan intends to create its own weapons and systems to integrate and with a reliable Chinese engine their is no reason why JF17 couldn't continue to be a export success


The more other states like Azerbaijan fund development and integration of weapons to a set up of their choosing, the better JF17 becomes

I think we need to aggressively pitch JF17 to every African country, every central Asian country, some South American countries, other Asian countries like Bangladesh or sri lanka and the PFX could fund itself


Whilst we expand our airforce with more J10s and J35s

 

[Scorpio]

Pak has got the best chance now they should ask for used f15E with stand off weapons. Get the deal done if f15E comes with no standoff weapons then we should not take it. The restrictions has many things debeatable. If india does want f35 and goes with su57 i think we can get it.

We event cant afford used F16's.. F15's are far away from PAF dream's as well..

 

[iron shrapnel]

We event cant afford used F16's.. F15's are far away from PAF dream's as well..

I think no one in Air Head Quarter is even actually considering getting F-15s... Sure, you would like to balance your fleet with Western and Eastern tech BUT not at the behest of throwing money.. if U.S systems are desired to keep the balancing act then maybe consider more F-16s with V kits and at the very least 120-Ds... This to keep the minimal level of relations and IF the U.S is interested in selling us equipment Army Aviation would be more than willing to get some helis... Maybe just maybe some A-10s. & Cargo aircraft as well....

 

[Bentley777]

I think no one in Air Head Quarter is even actually considering getting F-15s... Sure, you would like to balance your fleet with Western and Eastern tech BUT not at the behest of throwing money.. if U.S systems are desired to keep the balancing act then maybe consider more F-16s with V kits and at the very least 120-Ds... This to keep the minimal level of relations and IF the U.S is interested in selling us equipment Army Aviation would be more than willing to get some helis... Maybe just maybe some A-10s. & Cargo aircraft as well....

F16 V Serves no purpose to PAF.we already have air superiority fighters J10C jf17 block 3 its not about balancing western and Chinese or us pak relations PAF needs that sort of fighter genuinely . PAF needs something like f15 and j16 to deliver stand of weapons and retire mirages ASAP. We should start F15 agenda may be to get from Saudis. No one knows what air head Quarter is considering may be they are interested maybe not.

 

[Bentley777]

We event cant afford used F16's.. F15's are far away from PAF dream's as well..

May be you are right but i don't agree they are not newly manufactured expensive ones. I think we can afford it.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Because of your zulfiqar class frigates they can't carry long range P282 missile, it's no optimally for it's launch tubes and sensors on it.
P282 is for Jinnah class and new frigates that were bought from china, they have the sensors and the launch capability, they had enhance capabilities of zulfiqar class and needed a fast survivable missile cheaper than a SCM so SMASH was logical step, it might still equip Jinnah and 54 type frigates but it will be lower end weapon.
Recently a F4 was tested too, my guess PA's F series and PN's P282 have been merged.

I still believe P282 is SMASH. I will be pleasantly surprised and will be happy to know if P282 is separate missile. All ships face OTH limitations, so targeting data at very long distances had to be relayed by other means in anyways, so ship sensors shouldn't be the real issue. and ofcourse launch tubes are changed with missile. Even SMASH is not using C802 launch tubes, its using its own launch tubes. Its a different missile with different dimensions. Jinnah won't be a very large ship anyways. So whatever AntiShip missile Jinnah can carry, can be carried by Baburs and Zulfiqars too.

Recently a F4 was tested too, my guess PA's F series and PN's P282 have been merged.

I don't know if they are merged or not. But you are hinting P282 as SMASH yourself here. As Fatah missiles are supersonic, these are not hypersonics. and probably Fatah-2 and SMASH could be sharing lot in common already.

Let's talk more on relevant thread,

 

[Pak-Warrior]

F16 V Serves no purpose to PAF.we already have air superiority fighters J10C jf17 block 3 its not about balancing western and Chinese or us pak relations PAF needs that sort of fighter genuinely . PAF needs something like f15 and j16 to deliver stand of weapons and retire mirages ASAP. We should start F15 agenda may be to get from Saudis. No one knows what air head Quarter is considering may be they are interested maybe not.

Sun can rise from West but Pakistan will not aquire F-15s EVER! There's so many problems with that theory.

1) Available for export to us or not.
2) Acquisition cost
3) Maintenance cost
4) Weapon integrations.

First, you have to understand that we have "20" J-10Cs as of now. Its the heaviest aircraft in PAF inventory, can do loads of missions, if finances weren't really the issue , we would have had ordered 60 or 80 initially instead of just 20. So our financial capability allowed us to import 20 J-10Cs, We spent so much time and effort and money on pilots training and platform integration and you are suggesting we have a stomach to go for totally different platform and that too a twin engine, ridiculously expensive F-15s ???

Lastly, your point is that it will be used for stand off weapon delivery. Well, US will NEVER allow integration of our locally produced SOWs on US made jets. Raads, Taimurs and whatever cruise missiles / SOWs we will produce in future will be off-limits to F-15. So whole thing is non-practical from the start.

JF-17s can carry 2 CM401s or 2 Taimurs, J-10Cs can definitely carry even heavier SOWs. So whenever we will have a follow up order, then we can use some for SOWs delivery too. But no F15s will be procured for this. BTW, even for F-16 block 52s, US had special instructions to not use against india in offensive missions and 24/7 monitoring team remains stationed and no SOWs were given to Pakistan. Only LGBs and Amraams. So US won't give us american cruise missiles to strike targets in india. but before that we don't have any $$ for the platform itself.

Even F-16 block 72s are not coming to PAF and don't even think about F-15s. Literally we even don't need these anymore (even if these become available to import). Our finances, our whole logistics, our local weapon systems, everything is going great with Chinese platforms. Why we have to shoot ourselves in the foot by even thinking about these platforms again which costs us not just extreme amount of money but also our sovereignty.

 

[Bentley777]

Sun can rise from West but Pakistan will not aquire F-15s EVER! There's so many problems with that theory.

1) Available for export to us or not.
2) Acquisition cost
3) Maintenance cost
4) Weapon integrations.

First, you have to understand that we have "20" J-10Cs as of now. Its the heaviest aircraft in PAF inventory, can do loads of missions, if finances weren't really the issue , we would have had ordered 60 or 80 initially instead of just 20. So our financial capability allowed us to import 20 J-10Cs, We spent so much time and effort and money on pilots training and platform integration and you are suggesting we have a stomach to go for totally different platform and that too a twin engine, ridiculously expensive F-15s ???

Lastly, your point is that it will be used for stand off weapon delivery. Well, US will NEVER allow integration of our locally produced SOWs on US made jets. Raads, Taimurs and whatever cruise missiles / SOWs we will produce in future will be off-limits to F-15. So whole thing is non-practical from the start.

JF-17s can carry 2 CM401s or 2 Taimurs, J-10Cs can definitely carry even heavier SOWs. So whenever we will have a follow up order, then we can use some for SOWs delivery too. But no F15s will be procured for this. BTW, even for F-16 block 52s, US had special instructions to not use against india in offensive missions and 24/7 monitoring team remains stationed and no SOWs were given to Pakistan. Only LGBs and Amraams. So US won't give us american cruise missiles to strike targets in india. but before that we don't have any $$ for the platform itself.

Even F-16 block 72s are not coming to PAF and don't even think about F-15s. Literally we even don't need these anymore (even if these become available to import). Our finances, our whole logistics, our local weapon systems, everything is going great with Chinese platforms. Why we have to shoot ourselves in the foot by even thinking about these platforms again which costs us not just extreme amount of money but also our sovereignty.

If we can pound their air bases from j10c and jf17 with standoff weapons then there is no need for f15E but if they can't. We have to find a solution thats why i want PFX to be twin engine omnirole fighter. Even if PFX get operational in early 2040. No point making j10c capable fighter PFX which we already have and can get more upgraded one from china. Otherwise import from someone if possible.

 

[Scorpio]

May be you are right but i don't agree they are not newly manufactured expensive ones. I think we can afford it.

These are maintainnancr wise expensive and per hours flight is also non offordable ..

 

[Scorpio]

Nobody have any clue what will be actually PFX ... All are speculations .. that all

 

[Ali_Baba]

Does Pakistan have a wind tunnel that can be used to validate the aerodynamics of a fighter jet like the PFX ? Something close to this? Or is Pakistan expecting to use "some one" else's ?

Post in thread 'TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions'

Jul 31, 2025

KAAN is being tested in Europe's second largest subsonic wind tunnel, commissioned by TUSAŞ ( TAI )

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[RajaBaja]

Considering what just happened with turks wrt euro fighter typhoon sales and hesitation to buy J-10cs... I think the Turks would also be interested in another 4.5 gen platform that doesn't come with strings attached... The market space is there... Azeris would love to compliment JF-17s with PFX as well... No Airforce would be able to afford complete 5th gen fleet let alone 6th gen.. so decision for PFX is good.. now will it be a larger JF-17 along the lines of F-2, strike aircraft along the lines of F-16 XL, or a completely new design with dual RD-93MAs.. interesting times ahead...

PFX will not go to Turkey. By the time PFX will be ready for export, after Pakistan gets it's units, KAAN would be ready too for Turkey. That's Turkey's direction. For stop gap, they'll invest more in EFT's instead to create a 4.5 gen tier for next 30 years as these are brand new.

The real story doesn't come out. Germany wasn't disagreeing to Tukey having EFT's for airspace defense purposes. It didn't want to allow Turkey EFT source codes to integrate Turkish weapons. They finally agreed.

 

[Scorpio]

Does Pakistan have a wind tunnel that can be used to validate the aerodynamics of a fighter jet like the PFX ? Something close to this? Or is Pakistan expecting to use "some one" else's ?

Post in thread 'TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions'

Jul 31, 2025

KAAN is being tested in Europe's second largest subsonic wind tunnel, commissioned by TUSAŞ ( TAI )

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Most probably .. Chinese will be used..