Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) Terrorism Watch

[Indos]

Yup since 1990 I think Islam is spread through TV, radio, etc.

Women before the year 2000 rarely wear Hijab in Indonesia. TV does make influence, now we have many channel like Youtube as well.

For Indonesia case, there are the support from Soeharto as well since he becomes President

He makes many Mosques in Indonesia and from religious minister there are people who manage the mosque and later teach Islam

Of course since elementary school there are Islamic subject as well.

During 1955, Communist Party becomes third biggest party in Indonesia. So we can see Islam in Indonesia Today is not like even in 1955 when we had first democratic election

During 1990,s all private TVs are owned by Soeharto sons and daughters. Their TV have many Islamic teaching as well.

Soeharto becomes much Islamic since 1990 and this is why Habibie, Minister of Technology who is regarded as Islamic leader during that time ( he is Chairmant of ICMI/ Intellectual Muslims where both Muhammadiyah and NU intellectual were there) become Vice President since 1990's

 

[PakAl]

A similar concept is in works here. Lately, the bigger masjids are seeing Imam's, etc, that have other education also, like a Bachelors or a Master's degree. Madrassas now go through a proper registration process. All education has two parts 1: Religion 2: Standard education in the field one likes.

Now there are so many ways to get the guidance one needs. Youtube has many global scholars that can guide people on issues they need guidance on. Don't have to necessarily go to the local guy if you think he's not properly educated.

Yes for the past 5 years alot of changes have been done, new maddrassas boards created, more subjects taught, not sure if you heard of Nizam ul Maddarris, they made alot of changes in Maddrassa curriculum, added subjects like Maths, science, Language, Art, interfaith dialogue, ethics, they also give vocational training so students can find jobs afterwards.

Nizam-ul-Madaris Pakistan -- An introduction

Nizam-ul-Madaris Pakistan has been established under the intellectual, scholarly and ideological guidance and leadership of Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, the founding-leader and patron-in-chief of MQI. He set up Jamia Islamia Minhaj-ul-Quran in 1986 in Lahore, a city known as a hub...

nizam-ul-madaris.edu.pk

 

[Starlord]

Here we go the not so distant history repeating itself, didn't we cleared Bajaur a Gazillion times before? TTP knows that Tribals are violent and stupid people, 2 rupee ka Islam ka warrior Churan bechen gay aur Terrorism spread karen gay, while TTP funding comes from mainly Hindu Idol worshipers, The issue is not Islam or radicalization that happen during ZIA times, the problem is ethnic racism which has deep roots in Baloch and Pushtoon Tribal culture, our region/ethnic/tribe over Pakistan, these people never and will never completely assimilate in the Idea of Pakistan because they are still living in their barbaric Tribal system, there are a lot of Tribal people in the world, next door we have Tribal Indians, although they fight under Naxal's flag but majority of them were peaceful farmers who picked up arms against India and now they are vanishing faster than IAF chief's brain cells, New ZeaLand, America , Australia and many other countries have Tribal people and most of them progress and also become patriotic towards there countries putting their Tribal identity back but here in Pakistan that never happen, Pushtoon/Baloch not only stick to their stupid system but they never started the conversation how the Tribal people can progress towards been civilized. Jahil/Violent the, Jahil/Violent hain aur Jahil/Violent rahen gay. Army will start operation, save the Tribals (Again) give them some peace to work, build their areas, work peacefully but nope they will keep supporting TTP, giving them their daughters in marriage, give them shelter, hide them from intelligence agencies, provide them weapons, cars to move around, but if you call these people out for doing the same thing for 2-3 decades they will just either call you racist or blame old bad strategies of Pakistani politicians and dictators, which I call BS. Zia policy was in late 80's which spill over into the 90's, but even now the world is moving towards advancements these people just blame others, past, for their violent actions and chutiyape but never never never will take responsibility and look in their own banyaan to rehabilitate their societies, same churan, same majan, different generation.

 

[hussain0216]

You and I are never going to agree.

You are an Islamist, I'm not.

I could just as easily argue that religious nationalism leads to extremism, violence against women, mistreatment of religious minorities, disregard of human rights and overall societal regression.

Meanwhile most secular ethnic nationalist state including the one you live in flourished in science and technology, social development and infrastructure.

Kemalism laid the foundation of Turkey's industry, scientific advancement and development in the modern era. It has real world results. You hate it because it's not religious extremist.

You simply believe religious extremism is somehow morally righteous but ethnic nationalism isn't. The former operates like a cult based on a book, at least the latter is based in reality and blood which actually exists.

We can't have ethnic nationalism in Pakistan, because we are 5-10 ethnicities

One of the reasons zia pushed Islamic nationalism was because of the idea as a Muslim state we share a common Muslim identity that we can really around whilst ethnocentrism divides is and still does today

But as a project it was incomplete as zia died



Even today regardless of any Islamic terminology used by TTP etc, the real reason underneath is ethnocentric extremism for the terrorism

Same for the BLA or any sindhi group although they are far far less

 

[Rational Philosopher]

We can't have ethnic nationalism in Pakistan, because we are 5-10 ethnicities

One of the reasons zia pushed Islamic nationalism was because of the idea as a Muslim state we share a common Muslim identity that we can really around whilst ethnocentrism divides is and still does today

But as a project it was incomplete as zia died



Even today regardless of any Islamic terminology used by TTP etc, the real reason underneath is ethnocentric extremism for the terrorism

Same for the BLA or any sindhi group although they are far far less

I was speaking in the context of how Kemalism built a strong foundation with meaning and purpose for Turkey, and enabled an environment for growth and rationality, not exactly a 1:1 comparison to Pakistan but inspirational in the Muslim-sphere nonetheless.

Pakistan has to find something that works for it which can both give it genuine meaning that the majority can connect with and motivate them, and also not be easily weaponised by subvertive elements.

Unfortunately you aren't going to find that with leveraging pseudo-religious ideals which tend to be weaponised by both anti-development and anti-state actors. Time has long moved on from that, in the context of your war with Hindus it makes sense but not as an independent national identity.

Maybe something like "Indus nationalism" (this is something I've seen **** nationalists on TikTok post about)

 

[Baadil]

ideals which tend to be weaponised by both anti-development and anti-state actors.

Anyone could argue that any ideals can be “weaponised by both anti-development and anti-state actors”. What are you specifically proposing, rather than advocating against the one set of ideals that glues Pakistan together currently?

 

[hussain0216]

I was speaking in the context of how Kemalism built a strong foundation with meaning and purpose for Turkey, and enabled an environment for growth and rationality, not exactly a 1:1 comparison to Pakistan but inspirational in the Muslim-sphere nonetheless.

Pakistan has to find something that works for it which can both give it genuine meaning that the majority can connect with and motivate them, and also not be easily weaponised by subvertive elements.

Unfortunately you aren't going to find that with leveraging pseudo-religious ideals which tend to be weaponised by both anti-development and anti-state actors. Time has long moved on from that, in the context of your war with Hindus it makes sense but not as an independent national identity.

Maybe something like "Indus nationalism" (this is something I've seen **** nationalists on TikTok post about)

I think we need to aggressively push Pakistani nationalism from childhood, we need to unify the state behind that nationalism

Our religious identity is a important part of that and our ethnic identity is a important part of that

What we need to counter, is the groups pushing ethnic or religious identity ABOVE the Pakistani identity

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Anyone could argue that any ideals can be “weaponised by both anti-development and anti-state actors”. What are you specifically proposing, rather than advocating against the one set of ideals that glues Pakistan together currently?

That's up to Pakistan’s establishment and policy makers to decide and brainstorm about.

But so far given the signals in the public it does seem they've had enough with their fair share of promoting religious extremism as a form of identity, and seem to be instead emphasising more democratic federalism and "inclusivity" in a multi-ethnic state. Unsure how this will fare.

 

[El Sidd]

Maybe something like "Indus nationalism" (this is something I've seen **** nationalists on TikTok post about)

You would have to revive and claim the Saraswati river for that you would need to expand Sind to her former territories and undertake an indoctrination program more powerful than communism and capitalism combined. If you just want to give Sind more territory, why not use the same logic with other provincial territories?

The constitution of Pakistan is pro Federation and pro establishment of new order. Only prerequisites are that they should be democratic in nature and as per spirit of the Objective Resolution.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

We both know the Pakistani state and military are too pussay to do that.

now the rant is made lets agree on solution.
forget worry about Public image from that segment of Public that considers TTP as their angry brothers and reposts their videos on social media because their favorite general failed (instead of Faized).

Instead, Pakistani military must bring in Turkish and Saudi advisors who teach them how to dispose off the TTP and their supporters. if that is done then we will hear TTP announcing disarming and surrendering like the terrorists did after giving up their armed conflict with Turkish state..

 

[Rational Philosopher]

now the rant is made lets agree on solution.
forget worry about Public image from that segment of Public that considers TTP as their angry brothers and reposts their videos on social media because their favorite general failed (instead of Faized).

Instead, Pakistani military must bring in Turkish and Saudi advisors who teach them how to dispose off the TTP and their supporters. if that is done then we will hear TTP announcing disarming and surrendering like the terrorists did after giving up their armed conflict with Turkish state..

Saudi are weak but I agree with Turkey.

That course at Kakul needs to be modernised in co-ordination with inputs from Turkey's style, throw in some mandatory historical & political reading of the Turkish state too, might help us out in the long run since these folks decide to play politics anyway

A good reading on Turkish history and post state independence as well as China's CCP

 

[Starlord]

Saudi are weak but I agree with Turkey.

That course at Kakul needs to be modernised in co-ordination with inputs from Turkey's vision, throw in some mandatory historical & political reading of the Turkish state to, might help us out in the long run since these folks decide to play politics anyway

A good reading on Turkish history and post state independence as well as China's CCP

Turkiye has successfully defeated PKK, they are finally coming to peace and surrendering their weapons, Pakistani's Army is not in any mood to completely eradicate the Terrorism, nor the Apatite of B/P's people for violence is going away soon. TTP has steady supply of Pushtoon from both Afghanistan and Pakistan, Plus their leaders are not fighting for a ideology but money, PKK leaders have made the right decision for the betterment of their people, Turkey was killing their fighters in masses after their every attack, while the TTP leadership don't give a FUQ about the Tribal people or Pushtoon in general who they recruit to go fight and die a brutal death with charred body, and those parents from Pakistan/Afghanistan are too damn dumb who send their kids or can't raise their kids as better human beings so they play a productive part in the society rather than growing excessive hair to look more ugly, strap a belt on shalwaar and carry a rusty AK and kill innocent people.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Turkiye has successfully defeated PKK, they are finally coming to peace and surrendering their weapons, Pakistani's Army is not in any mood to completely eradicate the Terrorism, nor the Apatite of B/P's people for violence is going away soon. TTP has steady supply of Pushtoon from both Afghanistan and Pakistan, Plus their leaders are not fighting for a ideology but money, PKK leaders have made the right decision for the betterment of their people, Turkey was killing their fighters in masses after their every attack, while the TTP leadership don't give a FUQ about the Tribal people or Pushtoon in general who they recruit to go fight and die a brutal death with charred body, and those parents from Pakistan/Afghanistan are too damn dumb who send their kids or can't raise their kids as better human beings so they play a productive part in the society rather than growing excessive hair to look more ugly, strap a belt on shalwaar and carry a rusty AK and kill innocent people.

Turkish military ops against PKK were extremely co-ordinated & brutal and with strong fusion from a centralised political elite and legislative planning.

I don't ever see Pakistani military gernails having the balls or brains to do either, especially considering how divided the country is to actually get literally anything done

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

How many soldiers have they killed? Why must you appeal "to both sides". Are you on the "same side" as the army?

They should just occupy the Afghan part connected to this area and make it into a buffer.

The retards now equate security forces with terrorists. At least its a improvement from 2010's when TTP used to be favourites of locals.

 

[PK781]

Turkiye has successfully defeated PKK, they are finally coming to peace and surrendering their weapons, Pakistani's Army is not in any mood to completely eradicate the Terrorism, nor the Apatite of B/P's people for violence is going away soon. TTP has steady supply of Pushtoon from both Afghanistan and Pakistan, Plus their leaders are not fighting for a ideology but money, PKK leaders have made the right decision for the betterment of their people, Turkey was killing their fighters in masses after their every attack, while the TTP leadership don't give a FUQ about the Tribal people or Pushtoon in general who they recruit to go fight and die a brutal death with charred body, and those parents from Pakistan/Afghanistan are too damn dumb who send their kids or can't raise their kids as better human beings so they play a productive part in the society rather than growing excessive hair to look more ugly, strap a belt on shalwaar and carry a rusty AK and kill innocent people.

unfortunately that can't happen in pak.
When you have no clean drinking water, no healthcare, no jobs or employment prospects, undeveloped cities where you can't even supply hydro 24/7, it pisses the people and sends them into desperation. Who's giving them jobs? They need money for survival.....guess its the TTP and proxies giving them money so it becomes a sympathy and then preference and then routine. Strong support when you are being provided with money by the enemy.
While the govts, their elected sardars/jirgas/leaders all eat up the funds in corruption while providing ZERO facilities and benefits to the locals. So obviously the people will grow to hate the govt, military, as theyre all on one side while the struggling people on the other.......and with no recourse. No plan or timeline for anything.....leads them to support these groups and enemy proxies..........how long can the state fight them and keep killing own peoples??

People in pakistan are struggling to afford basic necessities of life. Life is getting tougher and tougher as inflation rises daily for the common man, with no end in sight. Aisay mei koi b ghalat track pe chala jaiga......perhaps even us if we had to live under such conditions. Jo roti kapra makaan aur paisa dega, usi ki following hogi. Simple concept.
This is why CPEC and all that other shit failed.....bcaz it failed to lift the people of pakistan.......now everyone wonders......kaha hai wo tarraqqi, kaha hai development? kahan hai healthcare ? kaha hain jobs/income/decent lifestyle??

unfortunately there is so much corruption and mismanagement that this cycle, will never seem to end.
Does anyone have a proper solution? at the moment, NOBODY does.
Sab apni apni mei lagay huway hain