PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[Trigger]

That edge is not worth the chains that come attached with it. We've been scarred multiple times in maintenance when we've most needed these American jets.

We also don't get the whole package ever. We had F-16s but no refueler and no A2G standoff weapons for them.

fair point. i still think paf should try to get their f-16 upgraded to 70 block. who knows, maybe trump can make it possible just to piss off India more

 

[Deino]

There’s a growing possibility that in near future China could relocate the entire J-10C production line to Pakistan, allowing China to shift its focus exclusively toward developing fifth and sixth generation fighter jets. While China may continue promoting the J-10C internationally, any future exports would likely be manufactured and delivered from Pakistan.

On another note, the rumor that the U.S. has offered the F-35 to Pakistan is completely baseless. No such offer was ever made, and Pakistan isn’t pursuing it either, primarily due to the heavy strings attached and the strategic limitations that come with such deals.

Pakistan is interested in additional F-16 on massive discount and upgrade to current F-16s in the inventory.

Plain and simple NO, there is No Chance that the production line could be transferred. That’s a similar stupid wet-Dream like Indian claims, they could Build a stealth fighter of even Bomber within the next decade.

 

[PakAl]

Plain and simple NO, there is No Chance that the production line could be transferred. That’s a similar stupid wet-Dream like Indian claims, they could Build a stealth fighter of even Bomber within the next decade.

Good point. Paf already made it clear on their next plans, they are working on pfx to replace it with jf17 block 3s production. J10CE is Chinese fighter jet, they will not and have no reason to move production to Pakistan.

 

[Oscar]

@Quwa Pretty sure you’ve seen the story on quad designating target it picked for a F-35.
That is proper MUM networking in play..

Considering Link-17 is reportedly deployed on certain assets - it is pretty feasible to let smaller unmanned assets do designation work for standoff systems to improve accuracy that was amiss in BuM.

 

[Scorpio]

China’s YU-20 and upgraded YU-20B.
We might see them in coming year in PAF color .. most sensible replacement of IL78 tanker..

 

[Michael]

China’s YU-20 and upgraded YU-20B.

There is no such model as “YU-20B.”

The Y-20B adopts an MRTT (Multi-Role Tanker Transport) design. It can quickly and flexibly switch between transport aircraft and aerial refueling aircraft.
That is, any Y-20B aircraft can be used as a transport aircraft, an aerial refueling aircraft, or even both at the same time.

We might see them in coming year in PAF color .. most sensible replacement of IL78 tanker..

The Y-20B is exportable.
But. Currently, the PLA needs a large number of Y-20Bs. The gap between demand and supply is huge.
Even if PAF places an order for the Y-20B now, it will take XAC a long time to deliver.

 

[RajaBaja]

Plain and simple NO, there is No Chance that the production line could be transferred. That’s a similar stupid wet-Dream like Indian claims, they could Build a stealth fighter of even Bomber within the next decade.

This discussion of J-10C production line coming to Pakistan needs to end. It's wasted thousands of posts. We will have overhaul capability in the future for J-10C's, just like how we kept the Mirages. For 3,4,5 squadrons, you don't buy a production line.

We need stealth jets in the future. So our target is the PFX project and getting J-35's, that's where the money will go.

China’s YU-20 and upgraded YU-20B.

We might see them in coming year in PAF color .. most sensible replacement of IL78 tanker..
View attachment 142073

Midas tankers aren't going anywhere. Currently, there are no plans for Y-20B/export to be purchased by the Pakistan military. Will we buy these? Yes, but many years from today. Il-78 aren't going anywhere until 2045.

We also acquired many units of upgraded but used C-130's. So our transport needs are covered for many years to come.

We are acquiring SOJ's and those are built on Brazilian business jet platforms. Even if we get the KJ-500 AWACS platform, that will be on Shanxi's Y-9 platform. So Y-20's aren't even on the next 5 year list.

 

[alphapak]

fair point. i still think paf should try to get their f-16 upgraded to 70 block. who knows, maybe trump can make it possible just to piss off India more

What is the cost to upgrade them to block 70 and will they get the long range
missiles in that package? will they get something equivalent to meteor or better?

Best option is to focus on more J10C then move onto J35A.

 

[bravo_1]

Latest visuals from DGPR (Air Force) video, consisting with FC-31/J-35 fighter jet.

 

[CSAW]

 

[FuturePAF]

What is the cost to upgrade them to block 70 and will they get the long range
missiles in that package? will they get something equivalent to meteor or better?

Best option is to focus on more J10C then move onto J35A.

Best case use for the F-16 fleet going forward are integrating, somehow, Domestic and Turkish air to ground munitions, and if possible, air to air munitions. Considering we can guide munitions via a second aircraft, via Link 16, or possibly some podded option, we don’t have to have waste resources, financial and political, F-16s get super expensive upgrades.

F-16s are the Toyota Hilux of the PAF, the last a long time, and carry anything.

We need to get more J-35s than upgraded F-16s, unless they come free or nearly free. J-35s are the great offset strategy for the PAF, and possibly the PN in the future.

 

[Ak01]

Best case use for the F-16 fleet going forward are integrating, somehow, Domestic and Turkish air to ground munitions, and if possible, air to air munitions. Considering we can guide munitions via a second aircraft, via Link 16, or possibly some podded option, we don’t have to have waste resources, financial and political, F-16s get super expensive upgrades.

F-16s are the Toyota Hilux of the PAF, the last a long time, and carry anything.

We need to get more J-35s than upgraded F-16s, unless they come free or nearly free. J-35s are the great offset strategy for the PAF, and possibly the PN in the future.

We wont see J-35 in sidhu's term really. Its just entering LRIP, then will fill PLAAF/PLAN demand and honestly if the PAF was to rush buy into it without teething issues being resolved first it would be a serious blunder. You can really tell these are initial batches from the poor finishes on the aircraft when you zoom in, vs j20 or f35 finishes

 

[FuturePAF]

We wont see J-35 in sidhu's term really. Its just entering LRIP, then will fill PLAAF/PLAN demand and honestly if the PAF was to rush buy into it without teething issues being resolved first it would be a serious blunder.

True. We don’t need to rush into it. But once China has worked out the bugs, we need to be able to raise at least 3 full strength squadrons; two eastward, and one naval oriented, to cover the most likely vectors.

 

[Ak01]

True. We don’t need to rush into it. But once China has worked out the bugs, we need to be able to raise at least 3 full strength squadrons; two eastward, and one naval oriented, to cover the most likely vectors.

the issue is whats an acceptable level of 'worked on the bugs', but also tbh, whats the pressing need?

Remember, the F35 has one of the best, if not the best global support network of any fighter/aircraft. Also has a near endless budget and support from its govt and partners. Also brings decades of excellence from the OEM's into one really advanced package. Its racked up over 1 million flight hours yet is still plauged with issues. Yeah, china has probably also learnt from this to avoid this, but issues will occur, they will need to fly a ton of hours fleetwide to be able to get an idea of when, how and where these issues occur then correct them.

Maybe i could see a small squadron inducting 9-14 aircraft to support the development of the platform with end user feedback, but going all in on such a high risk platform, especially when a pressing need is not present is obscene. Also, remember, right now it will be unaffordable. F35 cost 250m in lot 1 per unit, now at 78m/unit at lot 14. This is with the continuous upgrades too, imagine Pak spending 3-4x the amount on 1 j-35 now vs in 5-8 years down the line saving significant sums, not only in procurement, but maintenance and support as issues are ironed out.

I seriously think all of these sudden chinese deals REEK of kickbacks and corruption, backed by sidhu's fragile ego, wanting to be the man who goes down in history for 'modernising the paf'- at any cost it seems. I genuinely could not think of a worse move than committing to a J35 buy so early, especially without any industrial benefits for Pak...

 

[FuturePAF]

the issue is whats an acceptable level of 'worked on the bugs', but also tbh, whats the pressing need?

Remember, the F35 has one of the best, if not the best global support network of any fighter/aircraft. Also has a near endless budget and support from its govt and partners. Also brings decades of excellence from the OEM's into one really advanced package. Its racked up over 1 million flight hours yet is still plauged with issues. Yeah, china has probably also learnt from this to avoid this, but issues will occur, they will need to fly a ton of hours fleetwide to be able to get an idea of when, how and where these issues occur then correct them.

Maybe i could see a small squadron inducting 9-14 aircraft to support the development of the platform with end user feedback, but going all in on such a high risk platform, especially when a pressing need is not present is obscene. Also, remember, right now it will be unaffordable. F35 cost 250m in lot 1 per unit, now at 78m/unit at lot 14. This is with the continuous upgrades too, imagine Pak spending 3-4x the amount on 1 j-35 now vs in 5-8 years down the line saving significant sums, not only in procurement, but maintenance and support as issues are ironed out.

I seriously think all of these sudden chinese deals REEK of kickbacks and corruption, backed by sidhu's fragile ego, wanting to be the man who goes down in history for 'modernising the paf'- at any cost it seems. I genuinely could not think of a worse move than committing to a J35 buy so early, especially without any industrial benefits for Pak...

True. Same story with the J-10C versus the J-10A when Mushraff went to see it back then.

So, what course do you see as most prudent for PAF modernization? More proven J-10CP, especially to retire out the Mirages? I think a small fleet of 12 J-35A be enough to give the PAF some edge, without committing scarce resources before the plane is fully developed.

Also, I hope the PAF waits a bit and can get a derivative of the KJ-3000 radar on a C-919. The KJ-3000’s radar is said to have a 1000 km range and 380 km against stealth aircraft. A scaled down radar, possibly to the length of the wesgetail’s radar, but rotating, could give a similar range as the Wedgetails 850 km range. Comparing this to the 400 km range of the Erieye and 600 km range of the GlobalEye (Erieye ER)

Radar range we will probably need as India builds up its integrated SAM network. Greater range would also mean less aircraft would have to be up to maintain a full picture. With a range like the wedgetail’s the PAF might only need 2 AEW up at anytime, and with possibly 12 hour time on station, the PAF may only need a fleet of 6 C-919 aircraft flying at 30,000-33,000 feet to have a constant 24/7 picture during tensions.

P.S. considering today’s news about Qatar. Now might the time for the PAF to convince the Qataris to buy 36 J-35A.