Opinion: India Pakistan near conflict - Escalation management non-existent

[arsalan345]

Welcome to a first pre-view of the Indian "Sudharshan Chakkar" (Indian iron dome)! A 3 tier redundant missile defense network trying to cover 60-70% of Pakistani airspace. Also, making sure that if we take out 1,2,5 S-400 systems, it won't matter because it will be layer after layer and these S-400 and S-500 layers will also be backed by their LR-SAMS and other SAM systems. So it's pretty complicated and will definitely cause difficulties for Pakistan to use missiles and jets easily against India. I'm sure with time, we'll find a crack to it.

They think if they can block 60-70% missiles from Pakistan's side, they can eliminate the concept of a full fledge nuke war and that whatever few missiles do go through, will cause minimal damage that will be treated as "cost of war" by losing a few cities around the border as deep strike will become very difficult with 5 rings of SAMS ready to take out every single missile fired.

We'll now devise our own strategy to counter it. We have a year or two, before this design goes from concept, to be built.


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i have read some papers on this issue. i am confident that even with s-400 layers, india can't stop a nuclear missile. the paper described the role of ai. ai has huge role to play. india did manage to protect many important assets this time and yes, this previous conflict is an eye opener for our think tanks. some of the things that general public doesn't know has happened. some red lines were crossed. i am sure india is planning all out war and will continue to test us through small conflicts.

no defense shield can save india but yes, india has the upper hand when it comes to layers of air defense network. we were building more nukes and they were building defenses. now we need layered air defense network. it's very costly. we realized we have no hypersonic missile. we used cm-400 and it hit something. they tried to stop it but speed is the real game changer. we realized that we don't have scalp, hammer and brahmos. these are gaps, weakness. we must do lots of joint projects with china. india still has the upper hand.india is big and they can attack from deep. we don't have depth. this is why i wanted pak to annex parts of afghanistan. pak didn't do anything. There is a chance that our jets might use afghanistan and iran airspace in next conflict. we are running out of depth, big issue.

 

[iblini]

No good or benefit will come from it for China or Pakistan. The moment the americans and the west signal to india they want the old ties back, india WILL jump ship and run towards them

Depsite Indian mongering on the internet, everybody knows why Yankee made an U turn with their policy towards India.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Depsite Indian mongering on the internet, everybody knows why Yankee made an U turn with their policy towards India.

Agreed. But what happens if the americans reverse that decision? We need to be very cautious and wary of indians. They are the most cunning, backstabbing and duplicitous people on earth.

 

[iblini]

Agreed. But what happens if the americans reverse that decision? We need to be very cautious and wary of indians. They are the most cunning, backstabbing and duplicitous people on earth.

lol, ofc, they would go back to the Yankees even with a little lollipop, don't trust a single word of what the godi media said about sino india relationship warming blah blah, they are not the determined factor, they think they can just crawl back like that?

 

[Dalit]

lol, ofc, they would go back to the Yankees even with a little lollipop, don't trust a single word of what the godi media said about sino india relationship warming blah blah, they are not the determined factor, they think they can just crawl back like that?

Imagine if the Indians did this. India is in a sort of rock and hard place. What credibility would be left?

Fully committing to the China and Global South bloc means burning bridges with the US and West. The US and West aren't going to take the Indian U-turn very lightly. It would be nothing short of deception and betrayal.

Going back to the US camp after such humiliation means losing face and credibility. The Global South supporters would remember Indian betrayal for ages. Remember that the US has invested 25 years in building Indian economy and image.

The price you pay for being emotional and hot-headed. The likelihood of Indians returning to papa America is exponential.

 

[RajaBaja]

I am hearing Indian commentators on TV talking about how necessary China is for their development, and china India have a longstanding strategic relationship



Strategic relationship


Indian posters here have even started talking about China trusting India more, as usual trying to create a wedge, they should listen to the foreign ministers latest statement in Pakistan

Yes, Jayshankar was told in clear terms, India has to change it's entire posture from this war mongering to business and trade, become an active part of the SCO, no war with Pakistan or others close to China and become a part of the CPEC.

I think I mentioned two days ago, the Indian media was told to stop war mongering attitude towards Pakistan and start talking about "trade and growth within Asia".

Imagine just until a few weeks ago, they were getting ready for a two front war against China and Pakistan. Now calling that same enemy "daddy"!
This nation will do anything for some attention, money and status!

 

[r3alist]

Yes, Jayshankar was told in clear terms, India has to change it's entire posture from this war mongering to business and trade, become an active part of the SCO, no war with Pakistan or others close to China and become a part of the CPEC.

I think I mentioned two days ago, the Indian media was told to stop war mongering attitude towards Pakistan and start talking about "trade and growth within Asia".

Imagine just until a few weeks ago, they were getting ready for a two front war against China and Pakistan. Now calling that same enemy "daddy"!
This nation will do anything for some attention, money and status!

China cannot be trusted.

USA cannot be trusted.

Let's make this the headlines for a month

 

[Ali_Baba]

IAF has been very active over IOK for the last week(s), methinks they might try some sort of dramatic attack on Islamabad

Maybe they will, maybe they will hit things that hurt. But, then New Delhi will be hit, and can India defend against that? It is difficult to stop modern SOW, so pretending you can build a shield to do that, doesn't work. The deterrence comes from being able to respond, hit important things and cause pain.

India cannot remove Pakistan ability to respond, and India cannot protect itself from Pakistan's responses. That is what will drive India's calculus, regardless of all the NOTAMS where they try and do the perfect single mission.

 

[El Sidd]

ok Patwari...

one last time ..

show me any where Nawj has condemned Modi for his criminal behaviour..

Achaar Daloge statement ka?

 

[samsite84]

Keeping the fires burning now also works for Modi and co. Has also worked for hawks prior to them.

Demonizing PA consistently only demonstrates your lack of understanding of ground realities.

I hope you take my criticism of PA as an outside-in view of situation (probably more unbiased than "experts" in Pakistan). Similarly, I take criticism of Modi in similar vein - if there's smoke, there must be fire

 

[RajaBaja]

I hope you take my criticism of PA as an outside-in view of situation (probably more unbiased than "experts" in Pakistan). Similarly, I take criticism of Modi in similar vein - if there's smoke, there must be fire

So with these big ticket items, Tejas, now Sudhurshan Chakkar and it's internal SAM products, how much % of these new systems will be made by the Kings of India? Ambani and Adani?

Just like running a black market of Russian oil to profit from it, they run the Indian government and some even say behind attacking Pakistan, it was them who wanted multi-billion contracts. So for these multi-billion dollar products, how much of it will go to the Kings?

 

[samsite84]

So with these big ticket items, Tejas, now Sudhurshan Chakkar and it's internal SAM products, how much % of these new systems will be made by the Kings of India? Ambani and Adani?

Just like running a black market of Russian oil to profit from it, they run the Indian government and some even say behind attacking Pakistan, it was them who wanted multi-billion contracts. So for these multi-billion dollar products, how much of it will go to the Kings?

I have no clue. Pray tell... Oil benefits Ambani and Adani but so does almost any big "infra" and big "services" related work that govt. will do.

However, on defense - beneficiaries will be TATA, Larsen & Tubro and other companies (including start-ups)

One thing is that the big businessmen/family run businesses don't control is geopolitics and policies benefiting the poor. They have a big say in policies related to lower middle and upper classes for sure.

Same can't be said of PA. Now do you have answers for:
1. Why does a military establishment run marriage halls, bakeries, what not?
2. Why retired army professionals given cushy posting
3. Heck, why has no democratic government finished a single term since Pakistan's independence - frankly this is a slap on face of everyone in Pakistan who believes in rule of people

On some thread, a think tank was proposing a "joint/hybrid" structure and why democracy is not for Pakistan - WTF folks, if you want to be ruled by a few which make it through Army ranks that's fine but don't claim that democracy is not the right/good system. What has Army rule given you - terrorism that you bred, causing havoc on your own soil, lack of development vis a vis India (which one can argue was more diverse is certainly bigger and was disadvantaged at the start), yada yada yada

 

[RajaBaja]

I have no clue. Pray tell... Oil benefits Ambani and Adani but so does almost any big "infra" and big "services" related work that govt. will do.

However, on defense - beneficiaries will be TATA, Larsen & Tubro and other companies (including start-ups)

One thing is that the big businessmen/family run businesses don't control is geopolitics and policies benefiting the poor. They have a big say in policies related to lower middle and upper classes for sure.

Same can't be said of PA. Now do you have answers for:
1. Why does a military establishment run marriage halls, bakeries, what not?
2. Why retired army professionals given cushy posting
3. Heck, why has no democratic government finished a single term since Pakistan's independence - frankly this is a slap on face of everyone in Pakistan who believes in rule of people

On some thread, a think tank was proposing a "joint/hybrid" structure and why democracy is not for Pakistan - WTF folks, if you want to be ruled by a few which make it through Army ranks that's fine but don't claim that democracy is not the right/good system. What has Army rule given you - terrorism that you bred, causing havoc on your own soil, lack of development vis a vis India (which one can argue was more diverse is certainly bigger and was disadvantaged at the start), yada yada yada

Big families don't control "geo-politics"? You clearly have a different view of the world than reality. Ambani and Adani are your natural BJP imposed kings of India. Who are you fooling?

Big families start wars so they can benefit. King Ambani and King Adani are the one's behind May's short war with Pakistan. The bigger the damage, the more billions of dollars worth of "restructuring work" to do infrastructure wise. They wanted to damage Pakistan and in turn, whatever damaged cities would exist in India, their companies would get the "rebuilding" contracts for.

So either you don't know enough about India and it's big wigs, or you are playing dumb. What you have, is kingship. Even the US just said "India is running Russian black market of oil only to benefit 2-3 families" and you destroyed trillions of dollar worth of relationship with the US over 2-3 families. That's kingship. The rest of the India votes, just to vote. It's not a democracy just a show off.

So you have Kingship by Adani and Ambani, we have a Hybrid structure delivering to our people and taking us to the top 20 economies in the years to come. Our politicians get into their personal benefits in certain cases where state should be the top priority. Indian support corrupts our politicians, just like you do to Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka and other places so we have a system to ensure Pakistan first is always the priority. For that, a hybrid system is working just great.

Don't read me Imran Khan's media propaganda. Our military doesn't run marriage halls, bakeries, etc. That's the dumbest thing one can say. We face a 3 times larger enemy on East, we have a hot border infested with terrorists YOU train and send over on Western border. Our soldiers and officers really have so much free time to run bakeries and marriage halls

Military officers don't just come from the poor families. Many rich officers exist also, who, out of love for country serve. So like the rest of the Pakistanis, these officers fathers, brothers and grand fathers do some work, whether own mechanic shops, pizza shops, agriculture or engineering like everyone else. To blame one's father for having a marriage hall or a bakery or a pizza shop or being a landlord is dumb and political point scoring. Sadly, some Pakistanis brain washed by Indian RAW think ONE man is above the country. That's never the case.

We do have senior army officers retired working in civilian areas. That's how it is in every country, including America too. I know plenty of senior level military officials now retired and working as VP's and Directors in Fortune 500 companies.

For now, tell me how does an Indian feel with the beating we've given you in May and then the beating the entire world has given you from all around? It's been many "slaps" on the face and even some "kicks" too. How does it feel? Do you people realize how Pakistan is check mated you everywhere? The latest slap now by the Chinese to "behave" and follow, make peace with Pakistan, or go back to Daddy USA?

King Ambani and King Adani running an international black market of Oil and Indian government silence on that is a slap on the face of 1.4 billion Indians.

 

[samsite84]

Big families don't control "geo-politics"? You clearly have a different view of the world than reality. Ambani and Adani are your natural BJP imposed kings of India. Who are you fooling?

Big families start wars so they can benefit. King Ambani and King Adani are the one's behind May's short war with Pakistan. The bigger the damage, the more billions of dollars worth of "restructuring work" to do infrastructure wise. They wanted to damage Pakistan and in turn, whatever damaged cities would exist in India, their companies would get the "rebuilding" contracts for.

So either you don't know enough about India and it's big wigs, or you are playing dumb. What you have, is kingship. Even the US just said "India is running Russian black market of oil only to benefit 2-3 families" and you destroyed trillions of dollar worth of relationship with the US over 2-3 families. That's kingship. The rest of the India votes, just to vote. It's not a democracy just a show off.

So you have Kingship by Adani and Ambani, we have a Hybrid structure delivering to our people and taking us to the top 20 economies in the years to come. Our politicians get into their personal benefits in certain cases where state should be the top priority. Indian support corrupts our politicians, just like you do to Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka and other places so we have a system to ensure Pakistan first is always the priority. For that, a hybrid system is working just great.

Don't read me Imran Khan's media propaganda. Our military doesn't run marriage halls, bakeries, etc. That's the dumbest thing one can say. We face a 3 times larger enemy on East, we have a hot border infested with terrorists YOU train and send over on Western border. Our soldiers and officers really have so much free time to run bakeries and marriage halls

Military officers don't just come from the poor families. Many rich officers exist also, who, out of love for country serve. So like the rest of the Pakistanis, these officers fathers, brothers and grand fathers do some work, whether own mechanic shops, pizza shops, agriculture or engineering like everyone else. To blame one's father for having a marriage hall or a bakery or a pizza shop or being a landlord is dumb and political point scoring. Sadly, some Pakistanis brain washed by Indian RAW think ONE man is above the country. That's never the case.

We do have senior army officers retired working in civilian areas. That's how it is in every country, including America too. I know plenty of senior level military officials now retired and working as VP's and Directors in Fortune 500 companies.

For now, tell me how does an Indian feel with the beating we've given you in May and then the beating the entire world has given you from all around? It's been many "slaps" on the face and even some "kicks" too. How does it feel? Do you people realize how Pakistan is check mated you everywhere? The latest slap now by the Chinese to "behave" and follow, make peace with Pakistan, or go back to Daddy USA?

King Ambani and King Adani running an international black market of Oil and Indian government silence on that is a slap on the face of 1.4 billion Indians.

Exhausting... how few words have been said to answer the questions I posed and how many to bring the discussion to lower level. I don't know India as I type this sitting in India and you know it better. WTF...

To each his own. Om Shanti. Peace

 

[RajaBaja]

Exhausting... how few words have been said to answer the questions I posed and how many to bring the discussion to lower level. I don't know India as I type this sitting in India and you know it better. WTF...

To each his own. Om Shanti. Peace

You can't just "ask" questions and "dodge" the one's about India or switch the focus. Exhausting is when you don't get that window to target the other you wanted.

If you have details to write in response to my questions, write 5 lines or 5 pages, but give me proper detailed answers.