Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Dalit]

The DPRK's military technology and weapons are largely derived from the Soviet Union/Russia, with a smaller portion coming from China.

If both China and Russia disagree with Pakistan possessing a certain technology, Pakistan's direct approach to North Korea will yield no results. The DPRK will play a good intermediary role only when China or Russia agrees to transfer a certain technology to Pakistan but is not convenient to transfer the technology directly. ------For example, certain technologies that involve violations of the MTCR.

That is exactly my point.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan has two types of strategic missiles. 1: Liquid fuel and 2: Solid fuel.

1: Ghauri series liquid fuel tech has influence from North Korea.
2: Solid Fuel: This tech is attributed to Chinese Silkworm missile and other missile series.

Pakistan had gained experience through Ghauri missile development and had setup an industrial base for parts manufacturing locally. A separate team focused on Solid Fuel combustion and associated more advanced Chinese tech. That lead to Shaheen series missile program.

Our cruise missiles are essentially US tech derivatives. When Clinton ordered Tomahawk missile attack on Afghanistan, some of the 500 missiles fell in Pakistani airspace and Pakistan reverse engineered those and added some newer Chinese tech into those.

We've made some impressive progress in military weapons building with our limited economy. Keeping an enemy 3 times bigger at bay with defense budget gap of $ 6 to 80 billion is nothing short of impressive.

As our economy grows, more money will be put into R&D in advanced technologies. No reason why in next 10-15 years, we can't compete with South Korea and Turkey in some military products.

What would make me proud is when we design, even with TOT, a local HI-MAD system. That day is far, but it's that day to be proud of.

No doubt. Pakistan with its limited budget has developed a mechanism to keep Hindustan on notice. Of course with a lot of help from ally China.

 

[Mohid Afzal]

You are assuming gloom at conditions of R&D versus achievements based on 20% competence.

Shaheen series story I sat across Dr SM and asked and it was basically nuclear scientists finding books ok rocketry and learning delivery systems.

Guidance was in house - to the point guidance for babur is in house and I still have in a ssd the first iteration of the code / built for a TI floating point DSP + FPGA combo.

Guidance then for all series is in house - chipset design is in house. It is sent to China to manufacture and then assembled in Pakistan.

That isn’t the issue - the issue is that where there was great opportunity to make advances in other parts of systems design and otherwise it so happens either vested interest or plain incompetence by someone appointed unqualified leads to things being left out.

This applies to everything from engine metallurgy to propellant to MIRV bus design.
But there is progress in other areas
Coatings
Evasive technologies
Decoys

How much is actually implemented is anyone’s guess.

But, there are a lot of squandered opportunities which is where is gloom

And I don’t assume malice where plain incompetence will suffice

Sir, what about the engine, is it also in house or imported? I have been read the old threads from old forum and many said that they too were build in house. Another question if you don't mind, if the engines for our missiles were made in house then why were there no further developments?

 

[RajaBaja]

The DPRK's military technology and weapons are largely derived from the Soviet Union/Russia, with a smaller portion coming from China.

If both China and Russia disagree with Pakistan possessing a certain technology, Pakistan's direct approach to North Korea will yield no results. The DPRK will play a good intermediary role only when China or Russia agrees to transfer a certain technology to Pakistan but is not convenient to transfer the technology directly. ------For example, certain technologies that involve violations of the MTCR.

In a normal scenario, your argument is valid. But not in the case here. If US attacks NK tomorrow, no Russia and China will come protect it. Both nations will sell weapons to it.

Same happened with Iran. Iran had helped the Russians so much and even gave them hundreds of their Shahed drones including TOT that literally changed the war in Russia's favor. Today, Russia is building over 3000 drones per month and want to expand to 1000 per day. It's that critical for them.

But in turn, Russia went to sleep when Israel attacked Iran. So point is, North Korea understood this logic way back. Whatever deals they did, were out of their sovereignty and to survive. No relation with existence below China or Russia.

 

[falcon34]

Sir, what about the engine, is it also in house or imported? I have been read the old threads from old forum and many said that they too were build in house. Another question if you don't mind, if the engines for our missiles were made in house then why were there no further developments?

Just plain incompetencey of our establishment, we had a thriving missile program back in 2000s, yet it remains in that state, they went to lumbering sleep, think they had checked mated India through nukes in conventional domain, the recent fiasco woke 'em up a bit.
RN if they are able to get the Shaheen series in mass production for conventional domain would alot.
To catch up to the modern tech it would take us a decade

 

[Michael]

Sir, what about the engine, is it also in house or imported? I have been read the old threads from old forum and many said that they too were build in house. Another question if you don't mind, if the engines for our missiles were made in house then why were there no further developments?

From a technical perspective, the rocket engines used in ballistic missiles are not complex. Pakistan is fully capable of manufacturing them if it has a stable supply of materials.

The difficulty lies in materials science and economic considerations.

High-temperature resistant materials and high-performance propellants are the greatest challenges. No country will export these technologies, but finished products can be exported.
The economics come down to whether it's cheaper to manufacture them in-house or to purchase them directly.

 

[kimjongun]

From a technical perspective, the rocket engines used in ballistic missiles are not complex. Pakistan is fully capable of manufacturing them if it has a stable supply of materials.

The difficulty lies in materials science and economic considerations.

High-temperature resistant materials and high-performance propellants are the greatest challenges. No country will export these technologies, but finished products can be exported.
The economics come down to whether it's cheaper to manufacture them in-house or to purchase them directly.

Im pretty sure we make small to medium size rocket motors in house and have learned the tech for large solid rocket motors from china(most prob)....as far as liquid engines are concerned....we might have the capbility to produce them but not the technical know how on how to improve them and reduce weight...MTCR regulations have always been a pain in the ass for us IMO..

 

[kimjongun]

The DPRK's military technology and weapons are largely derived from the Soviet Union/Russia, with a smaller portion coming from China.

If both China and Russia disagree with Pakistan possessing a certain technology, Pakistan's direct approach to North Korea will yield no results. The DPRK will play a good intermediary role only when China or Russia agrees to transfer a certain technology to Pakistan but is not convenient to transfer the technology directly. ------For example, certain technologies that involve violations of the MTCR.

The russian part of north korean missiles are very accurate tbh..there newer missiles like HWASONG 18/19 are direct copy of topol m icbm....probably the russians agreed to share this when DPRK sent thousands of soliders to fight agaisn't ukrainians or maybe workers for working in mines/gulags....Was the soviets or the chinese asked when we went to north korea for the nodong missile? those were 1980s..

 

[falcon34]

@Panzerkiel
Why the tests are not being announced.

 

[Panzerkiel]

View attachment 142295
@Panzerkiel
Why the tests are not being announced.

Who said anything about tests...?....lolx.

 

[kimjongun]

Who said anything about tests...?....lolx.

why does the enotam looks like some random air routes blocked...can somebody explain why the notam isn't like those boxes or rectangles with coloured lines we used to see...

 

[Bentley777]

Do R&D create a strong base then you can ask for HGV sort of missiles. We should indulge private people and scientists who are experts of rockets and related stuff not just gov babus scientist both should work in synergy in new and old delivery systems. Pak should transfer missiles near 1000 - 1500km ranges to rocket force command for conventional role. Start 2 new projects one in shaheen series ballistic missiles like shaheen 4 with new design rocket engine motors guidance etc and one babur NG a supersonic crusie missile based on ramjet technology these 2 area we should work on for next 5 to 7 years tbh hypersonic is out of our league our test will fail in initial testing but fruit full results will come in after some time their is no shame in failing to achieve something.

 

[kimjongun]

Do R&D create a strong base then you can ask for HGV sort of missiles. We should indulge private people and scientists who are experts of rockets and related stuff not just gov babus scientist both should work in synergy in new and old delivery systems. Pak should transfer missiles near 1000 - 1500km ranges to rocket force command for conventional role. Start 2 new projects one in shaheen series ballistic missiles like shaheen 4 with new design rocket engine motors guidance etc and one babur NG a supersonic crusie missile based on ramjet technology these 2 area we should work on for next 5 to 7 years tbh hypersonic is out of our league our test will fail in initial testing but fruit full results will come in after some time their is no shame in failing to achieve something.

Thats a good strategy BUT:
1)Shaheen series should be only for nuclear role and should see increase in range and capabilities like maybe MaRv.....
2)We are far from ramjets tbh...even india coudnt make one without soviet/russian
help..brahmos is onix and akash is sa6 ginfall...but if we concentrate fully then we can
most probably can achive an ASSM lie the japanese ASM3 or chinese ones ..
3)last lines are on point...

 

[falcon34]

Do R&D create a strong base then you can ask for HGV sort of missiles. We should indulge private people and scientists who are experts of rockets and related stuff not just gov babus scientist both should work in synergy in new and old delivery systems. Pak should transfer missiles near 1000 - 1500km ranges to rocket force command for conventional role. Start 2 new projects one in shaheen series ballistic missiles like shaheen 4 with new design rocket engine motors guidance etc and one babur NG a supersonic crusie missile based on ramjet technology these 2 area we should work on for next 5 to 7 years tbh hypersonic is out of our league our test will fail in initial testing but fruit full results will come in after some time their is no shame in failing to achieve something.

BMs side seems okay,
Shaheen 1&2 should be pumped out in numbers for ARFC.
R&D for HGV should be done.
SCMs are are worthless, no point in Acquiring Supersonic tech when the world has already moved on to Hypersonic cruise missiles.
Shaheen 1&2 should be localized and built in thousands for the ARF they are good enough to the job done, the industry that would be built for the mass production of Shaheen 1&2 conventional versions, wil lay the basis for our hypersonics.
HCMs are exotic technologies not for an economy like pak. Gliders are well within our reach.
SCMs can be intercepted there is no cost benefit in them. BMs like S1&2 and HGVs will be more cost effective technologies for an economy like pak.

 

[falcon34]

Who said anything about tests...?....lolx.

The NOTAMs extends from northern Panjab to Balochistan.
Sufficient for the test of short range BM. My bad.
Still don't get why wasn't the last test of Abdali announced.