PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Why did you ask me, ask International Defence Analysis, so what if he makes a mistake? It is not a big deal. Why are you guys so riled up, strange people

where do you see fully loaded JF-17C (in air to air loadout) in this clip?

 

[MirageV3ff]

Found this image online and it does look very Photoshopped, but did chengdu ever experiment or test CFTs on J-10s?

@Deino @Michael

 

[Michael]

View attachment 146026
Found this image online and it does look very Photoshopped, but did chengdu ever experiment or test CFTs on J-10s?

@Deino @Michael

The J-10 series fighter jets have never undergone CFT testing.

The only relevant incident is a photo of a J-10 metal model (with CFT) undergoing wind tunnel testing.


The original design limitations of the J-10, as well as China's related development strategy, do not support the J-10 carrying CFTs.

 

[falcon34]

The J-10 series fighter jets have never undergone CFT testing.

The only relevant incident is a photo of a J-10 metal model (with CFT) undergoing wind tunnel testing.
View attachment 146028

The original design limitations of the J-10, as well as China's related development strategy, do not support the J-10 carrying CFTs.

You have any idea about the range of CM400akg, the non export version, SY 400 has a range of 400km on which it is based.

 

[Michael]

You have any idea about the range of CM400akg, the non export version, SY 400 has a range of 400km on which it is based.

The ranges of all Chinese missiles exported for export remain a mystery.

What can be publicly stated is that they all comply with MTCR regulations.

But,
We all know that China's weapons technology is "very backward." Therefore, the "errors" of our missiles are very large......

 

[m52k85]

Why did you ask me, ask International Defence Analysis, so what if he makes a mistake? It is not a big deal. Why are you guys so riled up, strange people

I am riled up because you said: "Watch the video before commenting, gee. It is not a picture shot" when you yourself hadnt watched the video. After I correct you, you take this line of what if he makes a mistake.. No sense of taking responsibility yourself, delay and deflect. This is the sort of people all around the world that are part of the problem. Deflect, deny, delay..

 

[Cipher212]

and instead become wholly dependant on china...

Why not?

Name one country besides China that will sell us weapons with no strings attached.

Name the number of times China has placed an arms embargo on us

Name the instances where Pakistan and China stopped being allies

 

[Ak01]

Why not?

Name one country besides China that will sell us weapons with no strings attached.

Name the number of times China has placed an arms embargo on us

Name the instances where Pakistan and China stopped being allies

How do you know Chinese systems have no strings attached?

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

How do you know Chinese systems have no strings attached?

The only string do not share the technology. on usage no strings there.

 

[Ak01]

The only string do not share the technology. on usage no strings there.

could you substitute the strings on usage with strings on sustainment and support to exert policy pressure?

 

[SD 10]

How do you know Chinese systems have no strings attached?

so china equal usa in your view?

 

[Ak01]

so china equal usa in your view?

my view is simple, trust no one and diversify.

I recently ended up bumping into an Air Commodore who retired very recently.

His entire job was overseeing RD-93 MRO- he was an expert on engines and supported programs as far back as the F-6/Mirage, up to JF-17 which was his recent assignment.

He even inaugurated the RD-93 MRO facility.

We had a brief chat, due for another, but the situation is grim... when we talked about China, "Paisa hi inn ka sab kuch hai, Paisa hi inn ka khuda hai". Just a heads up we're not allowed to buy most components, including spares and equipment for the engines from the OEM. We must go via China, who does not give us the real part numbers to prevent us going to Klimov to procure, they then mark up the prices significantly and provide to us...when they're not pushing more profitable/beneficial solutions to themselves, like forcing WS-13 down PAF throat who refused, instead, jacking RD93 part prices up, again...to pressure the PAF in bending the knee.

Theres so, so many stories like this its a normal occurence.

 

[SD 10]

my view is simple, trust no one and diversify.

I recently ended up bumping into an Air Commodore who retired very recently.

His entire job was overseeing RD-93 MRO- he was an expert on engines and supported programs as far back as the F-6/Mirage, up to JF-17 which was his recent assignment.

He even inaugurated the RD-93 MRO facility.

We had a brief chat, due for another, but the situation is grim... when we talked about China, "Paisa hi inn ka sab kuch hai, Paisa hi inn ka khuda hai". Just a heads up we're not allowed to buy most components, including spares and equipment for the engines from the OEM. We must go via China, who does not give us the real part numbers to prevent us going to Klimov to procure, they then mark up the prices significantly and provide to us...when they're not pushing more profitable/beneficial solutions to themselves, like forcing WS-13 down PAF throat who refused, instead, jacking RD93 part prices up, again...to pressure the PAF in bending the knee.

Theres so, so many stories like this its a normal occurence.

you amy be right but who would give us the strategic security other than china? China has a stake in not letting india steam roll pakistan, we can fight but not more than 1 or 2 weeks after that either we get saved or we would loose all the steam! relationship with china is about getting tech and all that but it must also be viewed through the prism of security considering the neighbourhood and also an ally in security council! what do you think is the alternative if we are too loose all this?

 

[Ak01]

you amy be right but who would give us the strategic security other than china? China has a stake in not letting india steam roll pakistan, we can fight but not more than 1 or 2 weeks after that either we get saved or we would loose all the steam! relationship with china is about getting tech and all that but it must also be viewed through the prism of security considering the neighbourhood and also an ally in security council! what do you think is the alternative if we are too loose all this?

i just fear that in a proper hot conflict, they will see we have no choice, then go on and jack prices up. Paisa is all for them. Even the US has an interest in India not steamrolling Pak, nobody in the world would want this. For China, i cannot see us as anything other than a client

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

could you substitute the strings on usage with strings on sustainment and support to exert policy pressure?

First, strings on sustainment—like maintenance, spare parts, technical assistance, and logistical support—are also there with USA, france along with strings on usage. what are the chances that USA and European suppliers wont imposed sustainment restrictions, often with stricter conditions? For instance, has the USA upgraded Pakistan’s F-16s mushkil say aik baar wo b war on terror main pakistan ka bairha ghark kar kay 18 block 52 diye. Even the Block 52 F-16s are becoming outdated now, especially when India is acquiring more Rafale jets, will USA upgrade them for us? karwa kay dekh lo.

Second, China doesn’t impose usage restrictions, which is a significant advantage. Unlike USA, China hasn’t placed arms embargoes on Pakistan or pressured us to alter our strategic policies. Yes, China could potentially use sustainment as leverage in the future, but that’s a long-term concern. In the meantime, Pakistan should focus on building indigenous capabilities, like the PFX program, to reduce dependency. By the time China might exert such pressure, we could have a fully indigenous platform or leverage Turkey’s 5th-generation fighter program for collaboration.

Third, let’s consider the alternatives. If we rule out China, what realistic options does Pakistan have? The USA won’t supply F-35s for at least the next 20 years, and even F-16 Block 70/72 upgrades are unlikely. If they do provide F-16 upgrades, they’ll likely restrict us to using only their legacy weapons (like the AIM-120D) and prohibit integration of our own systems. In contrast, China allows us to integrate our weapons, even on platforms like the J-10C. You might now argue that it is allowed only with JF-17 because it’s a joint project, but for J-10C it wont? we can clear this thing now before in the future china puts string on sustainment. Also, China will phase out the J-10 in the coming years, meaning we could negotiate for its source code, assembly line, fly-by-wire systems, and other critical technologies now so we can save ourself in the future sustainment. This would enable us to upgrade and customize the platform independently in the future.

Finally, if we don’t procure from China, what’s left? The USA is unreliable—its priorities align with Israel, and even NATO allies like Turkey have been denied F-35s, not just because of the S-400 deal but because the US uses such excuses to limit technology transfers to non-preferred allies. Even Qatar example is in front of our eyes. Also as you said that Pakistan can’t produce even basic components like nuts and bolts domestically, then dismissing China leaves us with no viable options. We can’t trust the USA for consistent procurement, so China remains our most practical partner for now.

What other options do you see for Pakistan’s defense procurement, given these realities?