PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Toxic]

Again, fake accusations of bribe. Why would you pay bribes when Pakistan needed a system and Chinese provided it at a discount price per our financial situation? Can you prove this?

A comparable F-16 costs around $100-120 million with similar equipment and we paid nearly $ 40 million while a JF-17 block III cost over $ 30 million! So really we got the J-10C as if it's a slightly more expensive JF-17.

@MH.Yang @Michael @nang2 Please ignore this political propaganda to malign China-Pak relationships. They damaged Pak-China relationships before and now they are back at it again.

Discounted prices??? We have paid standard price for almost all of our equipment, $40 Million lmao, this guy really thinks China sold us J-10Cs cheaper than what they themselves buy it for

 

[Princeps]

True but the allegations of corruption for J-10C are unfounded. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. PAF definitely wanted the J-10C and they got it at a reasonable price.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

i just fear that in a proper hot conflict, they will see we have no choice, then go on and jack prices up. Paisa is all for them. Even the US has an interest in India not steamrolling Pak, nobody in the world would want this. For China, i cannot see us as anything other than a client

Solution: Give them the paisay they want.
PAF: Needs to stop expecting freebies or super cheap deals.
Pakistan: Set expectations it can afford.

After the purchase of F-16s, Pakistan faced a balance of payment crises in the mid-1980s.

After the purchase of the J-10s in 2021, Pakistan again faced a balance of payment in 2022.

I can't remember if the same thing happened after the F-86/F-104 purchases.

 

[TallGuy]

can't remember if the same thing happened after the F-86/F-104 purchases.

they were free under MAP

 

[Ali_Baba]

This PAF J-10CE hangar is terrible.
Is this just a temporary facility? Or are PAF's reinforced hangars like this?
View attachment 146703

This is the PLAAF's reinforced hangar.
View attachment 146704

It is quite a old hanger. When it was built, it was state of the art.

Pakistan is poor country, and its ability to rejuvenate infrastructure as you have shown with the Chinese example of a new hanger design is limited. Pakistan would be something similar when it builds a new airbase, but changes of it upgrading its existing hangers to the new standard are close to zero i reckon.

Pakistan may need to revisit hangers for ultra-high value assets like the Erieye, Sea Sultan, and HAVASOJ as there is a gap there it seems to me.

 

[TallGuy]

we have funds, arrange via Qatar, just see what happens in future,

95 x J10CE in service within 3-4 years. (5 1/2 Sqns) all funded

 

[ThrustVector998]

we have funds, arrange via Qatar, just see what happens in future,

95 x J10CE in service within 3-4 years. (5 1/2 Sqns) all funded

If what you're saying is true (which I doubt), why not go for 5th gen now and have a more variety/bigger capability upgrade? If we have the funds, why order 5th gen later? It'll be more expensive and who knows about funds availability then.

 

[maxpane]

why is President visiting Chengdu?

sorry i did not notice that

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

If what you're saying is true (which I doubt), why not go for 5th gen now and have a more variety/bigger capability upgrade? If we have the funds, why order 5th gen later? It'll be more expensive and who knows about funds availability then.

right now, china not interested in supplying 5th gen due to capacity constraints

 

[Toxic]

True but the allegations of corruption for J-10C are unfounded. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. PAF definitely wanted the J-10C and they got it at a reasonable price.

I am not making any allegations just trying make a point about how no company is above bribing and that it doesn't cost much compared to the contracts they secure.

 

[Jeremy]

Friend, people having a different point of view is quite natural. All these opinions we see here on PDF certainly do not reflect the official Pakistani policy. These might be personal opinions or may have some stakes involved. But who really cares about that?

The two governments of China and Pakistan know what exactly they are doing. The strong coordination/integration of the respective militaries reflects the strategic bond between our two countries.

So, reading these diverse opinions just as the opinions (and not the official statements/state policies) and just move on, rather than resenting or countering them, is the logical course of action.

It's normal for everyone to have different opinions. When I see some members saying that China is extorting money from Pakistan and has been doing many bad things to Pakistan, it is inevitable that I will be a little angry.

There are also many anti-Pakistani voices in China now (since August). Call on the Chinese government not to sell weapons to Pakistan. I believe you have all seen similar information on the Internet. Some Pakistani members felt hurt.

Sometimes you see arrogant remarks from some Chinese people, but that is just personal behavior.

On the media account of the Pakistani Embassy in China, many people go to the comment area to criticize and attack every day. There are hostile forces operating behind this, and there are also a large number of ordinary people who follow. I can't help but refute these statements every time I see them. Our personal power is small and you cannot change some people. For the sake of China-Pakistan friendship, you can make some positive voices.

Everything is based on mutual respect and understanding. We regard Pakistan as a brother. There is a limit to what China can do, and Pakistan's future is ultimately in the hands of the Pakistanis themselves.

As long as you are a true patriot, you should be respected regardless of your views.

 

[ThrustVector998]

right now, china not interested in supplying 5th gen due to capacity constraints

If that is a case we should not put 5th gen funds are risk if the capacity issues are resolved.
Imo, any future conflicts will see IAF fighters launch their munitions from standoff ranges (~400km) so don't know what advantage J-10C + PL-15 combo will bring now that they've learnt their lesson

 

[Bentley777]

@Michael will China be interested in giving pak j10c production line with some localization with or without joint selling rights in both cases.

 

[Michael]

will China be interested in giving pak j10c production line with some localization with

This makes no sense.

The J-10CE's production technology is the same as the JF-17B3's. They belong to the same generation of production technology. Pakistan already possesses most of the relevant technical knowledge. However, the remaining areas that Pakistan lacks would require significant investment in basic industries, which is unrealistic for Pakistan at this time.

Based on cost, producing the J-10CE in Pakistan would be far more expensive than producing it in China.

This issue has been discussed previously; you can refer back to it.

or without joint selling rights in both cases.

Sales rights are impossible. At least, China cannot provide such rights under the current China-Pakistani relations.
=====================================
On a practical level, Pakistan must first fully resolve the issue of fully localizing the JF-17B3. Regardless of the JF-17B3's advanced state, achieving 100% local production is a qualitative leap, and certainly a difficult one.

 

[Ali_Baba]

On a practical level, Pakistan must first fully resolve the issue of fully localizing the JF-17B3. Regardless of the JF-17B3's advanced state, achieving 100% local production is a qualitative leap, and certainly a difficult one.

I agree with you on this. Pakistan must localise the JF17 in Pakistan fully, and manufacture the entire airframe in Pakistan. Some of the remaining tooling to do this, is quite expensive which is why Pakistan hasn't done it so far(and they did not do the K8 for the same reason). Talk of J10CE manufacturing in Pakistan makes no sense at all at any level, what will Pakistan "learn" from J10CE manufacturing that it cannot learn from J17C, answer is nothing.