PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Michael]

Problem is if india get production line of rafales how will pak counter it because already jf17 project is nearly at full potential further modification will be limited in 2030s. If pak moves toward j10c production line it can compensate for reguireqd

I suggest you first distinguish between military and industrial capabilities. These are two completely different things.

When facing the threat of enemy weapons and equipment, from a purely military perspective, as long as the performance of the weapons does not change, domestic production or purchase from reliable sources will have no impact on actual warfare.

Pakistan is worried that China will stop selling fighter jets to it (strategic security factors), or Pakistan believes that it is cheaper to produce fighter jets (cost-effectiveness factors). This is the core driving force behind Pakistan's independent production of fighter jets. ------ This is normal national strategic thinking and is beyond reproach.

If we only consider the issue of responding to India's Rafale fighter jets, then simply purchasing more fighter jets similar to or superior to the Rafale from any reliable source can easily and quickly resolve this military threat. Of course, if Pakistan can already produce fighter jets similar to or superior to the Rafale, then we only need to increase production.

 

[Bentley777]

J-35 is way forward. Even PLAAF is retiring J-10

J-10 was very useful stop gap, future is in 5th gen

There number will be 176 rafales also Some f35 or su 57 sqs and how many j35 we can purchase max 40 i think we got to bring some sort of numbers too thankfully time is on our side time to plan now.

 

[Aziqbal]

I think we need

more JF17 Block 3
build the block 4
J10CP

and also J35A

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

we cannot just stay with 20 J-10CE?

In my humble opinion a further order will only take place if more Rafales are ordered and actually delivered to India. Otherwise, focus will continue on further production of JF-17 Thunders and possible acquisition of J-35s.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

There number will be 176 rafales also Some f35 or su 57 sqs and how many j35 we can purchase max 40 i think we got to bring some sort of numbers too thankfully time is on our side time to plan now.

There doesn't seem to be any rush on India's side, just a lot of propaganda and a lot noise on this acquisition and that acquisition.

As a result, Pakistan is not going to rush into purchasing more J-10Cs just for the sake of numbers while PAF still operates 75 F-16s.

Obviously, Indian Air Farce has been proven to be defeated twice now (2019 and 2025), so let's keep working on more missiles and anti-missile systems.

 

[Bentley777]

In my humble opinion a further order will only take place if more Rafales are ordered and actually delivered to India. Otherwise, focus will continue on further production of JF-17 Thunders and possible acquisition of J-35s.

If KAAN did not had engine issue it would be a good option too may be till 2035 they can resolve this issue.

 

[Bentley777]

There doesn't seem to be any rush on India's side, just a lot of propaganda and a lot noise on this acquisition and that acquisition.

As a result, Pakistan is not going to rush into purchasing more J-10Cs just for the sake of numbers while PAF still operates 75 F-16s.

Obviously, Indian Air Farce has been proven to be defeated twice now (2019 and 2025), so let's keep working on more missiles and anti-missile systems.

Thats why i said time is on our side it will take nearly a decade to them to start manufacturing.

 

[Cesur]

This makes no sense.

The J-10CE's production technology is the same as the JF-17B3's. They belong to the same generation of production technology. Pakistan already possesses most of the relevant technical knowledge. However, the remaining areas that Pakistan lacks would require significant investment in basic industries, which is unrealistic for Pakistan at this time.

Based on cost, producing the J-10CE in Pakistan would be far more expensive than producing it in China.

This issue has been discussed previously; you can refer back to it.

Sales rights are impossible. At least, China cannot provide such rights under the current China-Pakistani relations.
=====================================
On a practical level, Pakistan must first fully resolve the issue of fully localizing the JF-17B3. Regardless of the JF-17B3's advanced state, achieving 100% local production is a qualitative leap, and certainly a difficult one.

Both the J-10CE and JF-17B3 are of the same generation, but they fill different roles. The co-produced JF-17B3 was introduced to meet immediate operational needs due to lower costs and to replace legacy F-7PGs and Mirage IIIs. The J-10CE, by contrast is an upgrade in the sense that it offers greater range and payload. During the war we saw there was an extended air engagement for over an hour between Indian and Pakistani air forces. The J-10CE in that sense provides more capabilities over the JF-17B3 especially against Rafales.

Local production of the J-10CE in Pakistan is unlikely unless orders exceed 100 airframes and even then, current finances make it improbable. Instead, attention is shifting to PFX Alpha, effectively a JF-17B4 in development. Pakistan has publicly signaled more indigenization, moving from the current roughly 60/40 (Pakistan/China) split towards in my opinion 80/20 on this program. It would probably have greater range, EW suite and payload than the JF-17B3 and it would be Pakistan’s answer to Rafale and Tejas Mk2.

 

[PakAl]

Pakistan will never be able to produce J10CE in Pakistan, its Chinese top line plane, this is why paf is working towards pfx, a medium weight plane which they can produce/weaponise themselves. If successful Jf17 Block 3 will be stopped and moved to Pfx. We do need more J10CEs though, minimum 56 planes to replace older planes.

 

[TallGuy]

And you know how?

pure speculation - what do i know?

 

[PakAl]

Pakistan is worried that China will stop selling fighter jets to it (strategic security factors), or Pakistan believes that it is cheaper to produce fighter jets (cost-effectiveness factors). This is the core driving force behind Pakistan's independent production of fighter jets. ------ This is normal national strategic thinking and is beyond reproach.

Pakistan China relations are strong strategic brotherly relations. The only reason Pakistan tries to work towards producing planes in Pakistan is to save cost, to diverse the different weaponary, produce own weaponary, experience etc. All nations dream of this and we have a brother who is willing to make it easier for us so why not. The same is applied with Turkey, we want to co produce many weapons and parts with them.

 

[TallGuy]

If what you're saying is true (which I doubt), why not go for 5th gen now and have a more variety/bigger capability upgrade? If we have the funds, why order 5th gen later? It'll be more expensive and who knows about funds availability then.

balance - 5th Gen will not be inducted by Indians. we have 10 years. let the J-35 mature mean while increase J-10CE numbers in service.

 

[kimjongun]

Damn,the past 10 slides were hectic to read....IMO there were no corruption in the j10 deal with china...also the chinese users or members who are most probably more experienced then me in this matter think that when we talk about a chinese product not being up to the mark or old you guys think we are questioning chinese capabilities in these fields which is totally false....the corruption being rampant in our officials is true but that doesn't mean some lone chinese company or contractor cannot give bribes..at the end of the day you have to make profits for having food on your plate and people/companies tend to go the bribe way for that like the french....No one is doodh ka dhula nowadays...the honesty probably would be higher in chinese defence areas then Pakistan but that dosnt mean there cant be odd cases...also the hate or suspiciousness against each other has been on the increase since many months due to the involvement of outside forces....please try to not insult each other on the bases of education or family cuz it makes you look like you have an iq lower then room temp..

 

[Cesur]

Pakistan China relations are strong strategic brotherly relations. The only reason Pakistan tries to work towards producing planes in Pakistan is to save cost, to diverse the different weaponary, produce own weaponary, experience etc. All nations dream of this and we have a brother who is willing to make it easier for us so why not. The same is applied with Turkey, we want to co produce many weapons and parts with them.

The JF-17 was developed to replace legacy platforms and meet or surpass capabilities of the F-16 Block 15's capabilities at that time. The Block 3 later was developed to surpass F-16 Block 52's capabilities and then came J-10CE which is arguably superior to the F-16 Block 70. Then it will be a JF-17 Block 4 to meet or surpass J-10CE's capabilities and then after inducting 1–2 J-35 squadrons and getting feedback from engineers working on KAAN in Turkiye, we will move ahead with the PFX 5th gen project.

 

[TAC]

No, it does not ... it's just an AVIC-owned one, most likely this one:

View attachment 146751View attachment 146753

Sorry, to clarify I didn’t mean PAF colours as in flag / roundels etc, just meant the colour scheme.
Regardless, least we’re talking about the J-10 on this thread again.