Gripen9
Trusted Member
* Yes *
Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions
- Thread starter ghazi52
- Start date
Oscar
Moderator
No you are not. Neither is the proverbial blip on the ops screen somehow “live” emulating one sensor nor is the blip on the screen going to be some tea leaves @side-winder needs to read.
Operations sensor is presented a picture fuzed from sensors including information on emissions, types and so on. Heck even the radar displays on the F-16 provides a lot of information in terms of electronic state.
You brought up the blip analogy as if it alone could explain how new information arises in jamming conditions, but this is an oversimplification. When I showed how the PL-15 missile potentially defeated the Spectra electronic warfare system, I was highlighting real-world evidence that sophisticated adversaries can circumvent supposed protections through complex tactics and technology and not some abstract “blip” standing on a screen.
If you claim to approach this from an epistemological standpoint, you need to move beyond vague analogies. The blip is not an independent information generator; it is a representation built from fused, often contested, sensor data. Clinging to your blip analogy without addressing the demonstrated failure of Spectra against the PL-15 shows a disconnect between your conceptual model and practical realities.
Please rethink your blip theory in light of actual operational outcomes rather than relying on imprecise metaphors that do not adequately explain how meaningful information is created, recognized, or deceived under real jamming conditions.
enigma chaudhry
Registered Member
Aoa
I told you, in June all that 8 rafales are downed. But u thought it was a joke.
Anyways , congratulations all
enigma chaudhry
Registered Member
I gave bs 28 aslo in June
The Indians should also show that too .
ThoroughPro
Registered Member
is that confirmed from the 4 damaged?
enigma chaudhry
Registered Member
Yes , that's true
enigma chaudhry
Registered Member
No , that's Renala, with an R
iblini
Trusted Member
It was not easy, not easy at all, people around the globe mocking us, even a lots of Chinese were convinced that we are inferior to the west, self questions, self hate, some of them turned into mental slave of the west in the process.
Luckily we have stepped out of the mud and is marching towards superiority.
Understanding the Rafale kills
- Aviation Features
- Understanding the Rafale kills
16th September 2025
Feature
**World Exclusive**World Exclusive**World Exclusive**
Alan Warnes gained rare and exclusive access to the Pakistan Air Force in mid-July, to understand how it managed to shoot down six Indian Air Force fighters on the night of May 6/7
With vapour streaming from its wing tips, this camouflaged Chengdu J-10C looks every inch the deadly fighter it was on May 6/7
All images Alan Warnes unless stated
PAF Commander, ACM Zaher Ahmed Baber Sidhu has revolutionised the PAF over the past four years.
PAF
“We ambushed them,” a high-ranking PAF officer told me in mid-July. “We trapped them in our kill chain and created chaos.”
That’s how the PAF claims it shot down six Indian Air Force (IAF) fighters in the early hours of May 7, when the biggest beyond visual range (BVR) air battle was contested on Pakistan’s border with India.
The IAF had launched Operation Sindoor (Sindoor being an orange/red powder worn by Hindu women). The PAF retaliated with a counter-operation, Operation Bunyan-un-Marsoos, (an Arabic phrase meaning a solid structure, derived from the Quran.)
More than 114 fighters were involved - 72 IAF and 42 from the PAF - most believed to be fitted with BVR missiles developed by the French, Israelis, Russians and Chinese. The senior officer said: “Fifty-two minutes after the air war had started, the fight was over, we won and they headed home.
“We could have shot down more Rafales than we did, but we held back. An escalation could have led to all-out war between two nuclear nations. During Op Bunyan-un-Marsoos we targeted the Rafales and the S-400s [Russian air defence system] and it worked out well!”
On May 6/7 the two air forces faced off, looking across their borders in formations like this
PAF
Unfolding air war
India had been seeking revenge for the Pahalgam terror attack that took place in Indian-administered Kashmir on April 22, when five armed terrorists killed 26 mainly Hindu civilians. India’s government, led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, blamed Pakistan for this atrocity and he, along with the majority of the Indian public seemingly, wanted revenge. “We watched while on full alert, waiting for a response,” the PAF officer told me. For six tense days, the PAF monitored the build-up of transport aircraft, supporting large deployments of fighters to several IAF Western Command and South-Western Command bases. They knew an attack was imminent and were prepared for it.
Each of the four Air Commands – North, Central, South and West – operates deployable command and control (C2) centres, capable of directing operations across vast distances. Among their many functions one stood out for the author - the long-range vectoring of hypersonic missiles, like the CM-400AKGs that the PAF JF-17C Thunder jets launched at some of the most formidable assets in India’s arsenal. They included the highly advanced Russian-built S-400 air defence systems (see The S-400 Quandary, pages 38-41).
The PAF Commander’s inner circle in the wake of the air battle with the IAF on May 7. This is the Multi Domain Ops room, where all the data was fed in from different sensors
PAF
The PAF Commander, ACM Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu in the National ISR and Integrated Air Ops Center (NIIACC) during Op Bunyan-un-Marsoos
PAF
The author was granted rare access to one of the deployable C2 centres, witnessing first-hand how it functioned. It is part of the PAF Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu’s integrated multi-domain operations philosophy he has pursued since becoming PAF Commander in March 2021 – for more on that see later. An Air Vice Marshal from the newly created Space Force added: “The C2 centres are reliable and robust and can see across the border into India, but I won’t disclose the range due to the sensitive nature. Fusing data with our new unmanned, space, EW and cyber commands means they are effectively our nerve centres.”
PAF’s Space Command has redefined the battlespace. Using indigenous satellites, it delivers round-the-clock intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) support. The Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), datalinks real-time information to PAF aircraft bypassing the limitations of the line-of-sight communication. Through secure SATCOM connectivity, pilots not only gain unmatched situational awareness but also offensive capabilities like electronic attack. It’s a central piece of the PAF’s Link 17 (and the enhanced Skyguard system), fed to the JF-17s, J-10Cs and Erieye to provide pilots with the situational awareness needed to win a war.
Why sensitive capability info are being disclosed?
C2 is a common capability but disclosing how it is used giving out info.
DOD has data classification
- Top Secret (TS): Disclosure could cause "exceptionally grave damage".
- Secret (S): Disclosure could cause "serious damage".
- Confidential (C): Disclosure could cause "damage".
- Classified
- Unclassified
This is highly unprofessional of PAF to making public these info. Information which gives hint about capabilities are also considered secret/confidential/classified.
And why Allen Wanes given that exclusive rare access? Whilat is his access classification? He is a foreigner.
Because he is a Gora?
And brown officers are just stunned by the skin?
Why hinting the capabilities?
Specific information is disclosed here, how EW spectrum is fused together.
Definitely it came from PAF.
Do they not understand data classification?
And access classification?
JF-17C actually has quite a cool solution for its onboard ecm suite
Do you notice something? On a block 3, the inboard LEF's are different colours...
Do you know why?
They both house a pair of AESA clusters, the LEFs are designed not to interfere with their operation.
Now, im 99.99999% sure these are where the JF-17s integral ECM suite antennas are placed. I lost the image and i will find it again, but PAC actually published a graphic showing AESA clusters in the LEF but nobody noticed.
But yeah, the JF-17C carries an AESA based ECM suite in the leading edge of the wing. A very cool solution i will say.
As seen here- integrated into the LEFs.
PK781
Trusted Member
this giving out tactics and sensitive info to the entire world......hope it doesn't come back to bite us in next round.........i personally don't think anything should've been shared. They have given up their advantage (hope i'm proven wrong but very concerned now). Time will tell.....
ThoroughPro
Registered Member
Nothing secret or that may compromise our own security is leaked, all the info is very generic.
