Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

What about the newer HQ-9C? isn't that at par with S400 in range now?
The S-400 is an integrated air defense system, or what might be called an all-purpose air defense system. This concept is similar to that of a multirole combat aircraft (MRCA). It utilizes a single control center, multiple radars, and a variety of interceptor missiles to provide full airspace protection.
In theory, it can intercept everything from hypersonic ballistic missiles to low-flying UAVs and low-flying cruise missiles. However, its actual interception effectiveness remains questionable.
We often refer to this concept as "doing everything, but doing nothing well."

The HQ-9 series air defense system is a specialized air defense system. It targets medium- and long-range targets only, with other air defense missiles handling targets too far or too close. Furthermore, it is compatible with most Chinese radar systems, allowing it to be launched via both TEL and ship-based VLS.

China is continuously updating the HQ-9 series air defense system. The older HQ-9 versions already in service can be upgraded with additional or updated radar systems to improve detection capabilities; interceptor missiles to enhance interception capabilities; and command systems to enhance integration with other systems. These efforts do not require the purchase of a complete new system. Of course, it is also possible to separately purchase new HQ-19/29 high-altitude missile defense systems and other Chinese low-altitude air defense systems and then integrate them with the existing HQ-9 system to form a larger and more advanced air defense system.

Simply comparing the S-400 and HQ-9 is meaningless. Their original design concepts differ significantly.
 
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Imagine what it does to you from your character perspective, from the stress of possibly some serious life threats by the BJP hit squad or the political nutjobs they breed in the IAF. What impact it has to the character and feelings of those IAF pilots and planners who rightly did execute some great textbook attacks on the 10th. To the smart western command AD folks who kept their radars off and only let their gunners pick off the PAF's half baked YIHA Attacks.

To the S-400 operators who kept the line all the way until they were forced to withdraw.
A total slap in the face to all professionals.

Imagine if in the Falkands war, the Argentinian pilots who kept a brave effort regardless of being outgunned via the AIM-9L and better training hear claims their roland sams which were taken out early shot down 5 harriers and a vulcan.
That's a perfect scenario from Pakistan's point of view, This behaviour will successfully push out or sideline the pro's and talent, making our work easier an deasier as the time goes.
 
Why sensitive capability info are being disclosed?
C2 is a common capability but disclosing how it is used giving out info.
DOD has data classification
  • Top Secret (TS): Disclosure could cause "exceptionally grave damage".
  • Secret (S): Disclosure could cause "serious damage".
  • Confidential (C): Disclosure could cause "damage".
  • Classified
  • Unclassified
And there are sub-classification also.
This is highly unprofessional of PAF to making public these info. Information which gives hint about capabilities are also considered secret/confidential/classified.
And why Allen Wanes given that exclusive rare access? Whilat is his access classification? He is a foreigner.
Because he is a Gora?
And brown officers are just stunned by the skin?




Why hinting the capabilities?


Specific information is disclosed here, how EW spectrum is fused together.
Definitely it came from PAF.
Do they not understand data classification?
And access classification?
Just a overview. No one knows how it works
 
One can argue that as well, but then DGAO mentioned "we've downed their aircrafts as well but being ascertained", and on 10th PC it was also mentioned enemy faced losses in the air. ACM just mentioned that during an annual event where he got the chance to speak. He showed some new pics/videos too.

While 3 months later, we have seen another Rafale kill claim coming from PAF.
not a new claim, confirmation of a kill that took some time to be verified. AC Chisti mentioned that in his interviews within the first few days of the conflict.
 
JF-17C actually has quite a cool solution for its onboard ecm suite

View attachment 147478
View attachment 147479

Do you notice something? On a block 3, the inboard LEF's are different colours...

Do you know why?

They both house a pair of AESA clusters, the LEFs are designed not to interfere with their operation.

Now, im 99.99999% sure these are where the JF-17s integral ECM suite antennas are placed. I lost the image and i will find it again, but PAC actually published a graphic showing AESA clusters in the LEF but nobody noticed.

But yeah, the JF-17C carries an AESA based ECM suite in the leading edge of the wing. A very cool solution i will say.

View attachment 147480
As seen here- integrated into the LEFs.



I noticed same thing a while back but apparently it's just IFF as per JamD
 
No you are not. Neither is the proverbial blip on the ops screen somehow “live” emulating one sensor nor is the blip on the screen going to be some tea leaves @side-winder needs to read.

Operations sensor is presented a picture fuzed from sensors including information on emissions, types and so on. Heck even the radar displays on the F-16 provides a lot of information in terms of electronic state.

You brought up the blip analogy as if it alone could explain how new information arises in jamming conditions, but this is an oversimplification. When I showed how the PL-15 missile potentially defeated the Spectra electronic warfare system, I was highlighting real-world evidence that sophisticated adversaries can circumvent supposed protections through complex tactics and technology and not some abstract “blip” standing on a screen.

If you claim to approach this from an epistemological standpoint, you need to move beyond vague analogies. The blip is not an independent information generator; it is a representation built from fused, often contested, sensor data. Clinging to your blip analogy without addressing the demonstrated failure of Spectra against the PL-15 shows a disconnect between your conceptual model and practical realities.

Please rethink your blip theory in light of actual operational outcomes rather than relying on imprecise metaphors that do not adequately explain how meaningful information is created, recognized, or deceived under real jamming conditions.


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so until now, you have written at least 6 paras for my at least 6 lines!

I have highlighted few biases (could be survival, sampling and confirmation bias)
that's not productive or output driven or shall I say, trait of someone who precisely and surgically knows what he is talking about!


Point proven?!!!! sure, list 10 more functionalities and look smart and bash some one who is not educated on these matters!

I may lack deep expertise, and my explanations relied on metaphors and analogies, while you appear highly knowledgeable (im not an engineer!). Please read the following carefully:


How was blip speed determined in a specific jamming environment? Which came first: the characterization of the jamming-speed output, or the generation of the blip?


Your writing sometimes reads like the work of someone who has skimmed scientific journals but hasn’t fully engaged with the phenomenon. You give the impression of not being willing to explain the blip in alternative terms. Different interpretations change how concepts are applied; using technical terms without rephrasing them limits practical understanding. A short list of names and specifications does not substitute for a full understanding of system behavior.


Additionally, you seem to assume that a blip’s characteristics are identical across different jamming environments. That assumption requires justification.


I am not claiming Spectra failure. Rather, I am highlighting a piece of information that was previously unrecognized. Yet you keep asserting that “the spectra has not failed” and keep labeling my analogies as vague (I could do the same, line by line for each of yours argument!).

I feel dismissed (and ridiculed). I don’t think a productive conversation is possible under these conditions with you ever because the way you write!

you know a lot probably, I cannot doubt it, you may!

but it does'nt look like that, the way you have written biases in paras!

thats borderline fan boy stuff and not scientific approach!

sorry!

Next time (which wont be any!), try to develop arguments (there are'nt any as shown by highlighting biases!) beyond my analogies. It’s your understanding — so why belittle mine when I’m not even an engineer?


That’s ridiculous and boyish!
 
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So, where is it?

Your English is definitely better than mine. Could you explain to us what "intact" means?
View attachment 147534
View attachment 147535
If you think the ones above are "intact" PL-15E air-to-air missiles, based on your logic, we can certainly think that the ones below are "intact" Rafale fighters.
View attachment 147540
The same logic applies to my answer!

The IAF successfully intercepted a PAF PL-15E air-to-air missile using a Rafale fighter jet. Then, the IAF Rafale fighter jet landed intact in Indian territory.
He is 100 percent an indian guy resisding in france..he is also present on strategic frontier(an indian forum) while having very large bias....everybody knows that any western or french guy wont defend india on a pakistani froum as much as he does
 
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I never said that.
I said that 1 Rafale was grounded, for unknown reason (PL-15 ? bird strike? technical breakdown? spatial disorientation?)
I said that it is not impossible some more were damaged.

The rest is fantasy.
grounded?? so does that mean the video of the bhatinda guys is fake im talking aboutt The video made at night...clearly talking about the death of a civillian and pilot....and the mica pilon dumbo...you just cant be making shit about the rafale in bhatinda...the other 2 rafales wreckages hasn't been on the internet due to the terrain of kashmir and possibility of them downed over the national park as said by ACM AURENGZEB IN CONFERENCE....BUT ATLEAST THE RAFALE IN BHATINDA IS TRUE AND YOU CANT COVER IT UP BY BIRD STRIKE...If it had been a bird strike the IAF definitely would have said so....also all the pl15s had the warhead exploded not intact does this make you think something???
 
can somebody tell me if there is a thread for lessons learned from the may conflict
 
Pakistan would never go for them. The HQ9B's are pretty close to them in capability, and the HQ9C will be a lot better than the S400. It is China who has the money to invest into its products, that is the trend line of where the best products will come from and integrating new chinese products is alot easier than a new type from a country that has never supplied anything to Pakistan before.
I don't doubt that,I just thought...you know,Pakistan could always use a few more AA systems like that. But Russians want them for themselves I guess.
 

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