Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[flyingorca]

I never said that.
I said that 1 Rafale was grounded, for unknown reason (PL-15 ? bird strike? technical breakdown? spatial disorientation?)
I said that it is not impossible some more were damaged.

The rest is fantasy.

Yep a Rafale down due to mid air explosive diarrhea.

 

[ThoroughPro]

May even see permanent Saudi units soon....

not possible, US would not allow f15's to be stationed in Pakistan.

 

[imadul]

Just a overview. No one knows how it works

Aggregation and inference attacks are known security threats. Now just analysis required to infer more info from what is made public.

Can you plz ask around, PAF, PA, PN, has sensitive data classification?
These are standard procedures that sensitive information cannot be released inadvertently.

• A subject may not read info at a higher sensitivity level
• A subject may not write info to a lower sensitivity level

And how come this mr. Allen warnes won't disclose info to anyone? He is a foreign national, not under oath to not disclose confidential info.

In their desperation to showcase war trophies PAF is showing childish behavior.

 

[LX1111]

Yep a Rafale down due to mid air explosive diarrhea.
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This picture is clearer. This is clearly the trace of the discrete continuous rod warhead cutting the tail after the explosion, just like a red-hot wire cutting butter.

 

[bravo_1]

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[flyingorca]

This picture is clearer. This is clearly the trace of the discrete continuous rod warhead cutting the tail after the explosion, just like a red-hot wire cutting butter.
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It wont be a clean cut like that, i think rudder separated due to engine tearing apart from rear fuselage.

 

[PK781]

A noob question - Is there a possibility China tested its 6G powered EW/ ECCM system during the skirmishes?

probably alot of things were tested and executed well......but i dont think we'll ever hear anything, as it will be kept under wraps for further surprises in the next round.
Which is as always, good for Pakistan.....and shall be devastating for anything the indians try to do next time.
this war shall be a testing ground for Chinese technology and hardware, that is for sure and everything will be tweaked further if necessary.

the russian old tech is in no way going to help the indians at all.....they're on their own pretty much.

 

[snne]

tbh, I do wonder though...there must have been a rationale for the EU to support Meteor and, likewise, the Turks to back not one, but two ramjet-powered AAM projects.

The Europeans are likely suffering from momentum and a sunk-cost fallacy.

Actually, this is also why Turkey is developing both solid- and liquid-fuel ramjet AAMs.

Roketsan's Gökbora is a later addition compared to Tubitak SAGE's Gökhan, which uses a liquid-fuel ramjet also found in a new anti-ship missile.

Since it shares its engine with an anti-ship missile, the Gökhan is significantly larger than the existing Gökdogan and boasts a much higher range.

On the other hand, although the Gökhan also features cropped fins for internal carriage, it likely reduces the number of missiles that Kaan's IWBs could accommodate. This is where the Gökbora, a smaller long-range missile (essentially a Meteor analogue) for platform-independent IWB carriage and easier storage, comes in.

While SAGE's Gökhan utilizes their broad experience with liquid-fuel ramjet and the same engine as an anti-ship missile, Roketsan's Gökbora uses a solid-fuel ramjet developed for the famous (and long-in-development) Akbaba, a highly secret anti-radiation missile that is set to enter service real soon.

An AMRAAM-D equivalent version of the Gökdogan is also officially under development.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Faaz-1=reverse engineered SD-10, like Barq
We were probably allowed to do this because the Chinese dont care anymore

SD-10 we assemble.

With Faaz we just dont have enough details to make any assertions beyond it being a variant of the SD-10, probably an unlicensed copy- i dont know how local it can be considering we dont make the stuff needed

So they just changed label to Faaz

 

[m52k85]

Its time defence enthusiast dump Ramjet as some magical propulsion for AAMs. The infatuation for it started when the Meteor development came to light. Since then we have had hints such as US not choosing it as a solution in the mid 2010s to China's Pl-15 development and instead strapping SM-6s to hornets as a stop gap while they developed AIM-260, which we now know is also not Ramjet based.

The hints of inferiority of Ramjets in AAMs changed to certainty a few days back when Alan Warnes quoted the PAF as saying the Pl-15 outranged the Meteor (in max range) by some 40 odd kms.

Here is where the future of AAMs lies in the foreseeable future:
1. Ramjets have severe situational limitations.
2. Dual-pulse has proven itself.
3. To achieve greater proportion of fuel on board, hit-to-kill will be introduced and the space from the warhead (explosive and scattering matter) will be re-alocated to fuel.
4. A separate set of developments will see the equivalent of SDB coming out in AAMs with the aim of increasing magzine depth in the Internal bays of stealth aircraft.
5. And finally, the straight forward route of enlarging the AAM will also see light and will keep heavy 4.5 gen fighters capable of carying these outsized missiles, relevant in the era of stealth.

 

[Oscar]

Its time defence enthusiast dump Ramjet as some magical propulsion for AAMs. The infatuation for it started when the Meteor development came to light. Since then we have had hints such as US not choosing it as a solution in the mid 2010s to China's Pl-15 development and instead strapping SM-6s to hornets as a stop gap while they developed AIM-260, which we now know is also not Ramjet based.

The hints of inferiority of Ramjets in AAMs changed to certainty a few days back when Alan Warnes quoted the PAF as saying the Pl-15 outranged the Meteor (in max range) by some 40 odd kms.

Here is where the future of AAMs lies in the foreseeable future:
1. Ramjets have severe situational limitations.
2. Dual-pulse has proven itself.
3. To achieve greater proportion of fuel on board, hit-to-kill will be introduced and the space from the warhead (explosive and scattering matter) will be re-alocated to fuel.
4. A separate set of developments will see the equivalent of SDB coming out in AAMs with the aim of increasing magzine depth in the Internal bays of stealth aircraft.
5. And finally, the straight forward route of enlarging the AAM will also see light and will keep heavy 4.5 gen fighters capable of carying these outsized missiles, relevant in the era of stealth.

Ramjets were a late 80s - 90s solution in trying to maximize range while keeping missile size relatively small.
Modern rocket motors are capable of better performance that the ideas coined then and more importantly as low observable aircraft intermix with 4.5th gen aircraft it’s becoming equally important to have high pk versus only range as the parameter.

Eventually kinetic hit to kill defensive missiles will come in lieu of DEW systems.

Who knows - maybe decades from now it will be back to the era of large airships instead of aircraft fighting it out like battleships in the air.

 

[enigma chaudhry]

Buddy can you elaborate on this more, were all air to air kills or sam's did damage, any kills to JF17?.

All air to air. All credited to j10c.

 

[enigma chaudhry]

take it or leave it i am not a good source at all!

its 22 total IAF losses (14 x in air) reminder on ground. out of 22 there are 8 x Rafales lost.

no losses at all on our side - why would there be any losses - its not like IAF fired a single air to air missile at us. (ZERO)

As for the S-400 SAM threat it was a real one multiple missiles launched in attempt to engage flying PAF aircraft - By grace of All Mighty none able to hit anything. (ZERO)

Any case PIADS has distinction of shooting S-400 (LR Missile) over Dinga by HQ-9P (yes not the HQ9BE) missile to missile kill among others. SCALP & Brahmos Kills.

I agree with you .

 

[Michael]

Has the PAF also procured the LD-8A anti-radiation missile?

The LD-8A anti-radiation missile is based on the PL-15 air-to-air missile. All of China's current main fighter jets can carry it. Furthermore, it can be carried and launched by medium- to large-sized UAVs. Therefore, the PAF's JF-17 and J-10CE fighter jets, as well as other medium- to large-sized UAVs of Chinese descent, can use it.

General Specifications (Unofficial):
Length: 3200mm
Diameter: 180mm (excluding missile wings)
Weight: 130kg (including 30kg of warhead)
Maximum Attack Range: Approximately 160km (This one! Think for yourself!)

 

[Quwa]

Has the PAF also procured the LD-8A anti-radiation missile?

The LD-8A anti-radiation missile is based on the PL-15 air-to-air missile. All of China's current main fighter jets can carry it. Furthermore, it can be carried and launched by medium- to large-sized UAVs. Therefore, the PAF's JF-17 and J-10CE fighter jets, as well as other medium- to large-sized UAVs of Chinese descent, can use it.

General Specifications (Unofficial):
Length: 3200mm
Diameter: 180mm (excluding missile wings)
Weight: 130kg (including 30kg of warhead)
Maximum Attack Range: Approximately 160km (This one! Think for yourself!)

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@Oscar It looks like they completed the new SD-10 variant (i.e., PL-12AE). I remember back in 2018 when PAF/PAC folks were saying that a new variant of SD-10 would be considered for the Block-3 (as they weren't sure PL-15 would be available for export, which obv changed to PL-15/E once the J-10CE deal was signed).