Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Meengla]

The last 2 years have changed things significantly
It's pointless to explain this to India who see the world like Israel, an echo chamber, blind.
China oversaw an understanding between Iran and Saudi, Pakistan was cheered and hailed in Iranian parliament , Turkey and Pakistan are robust
Turkey Pakistan Azerbaijan
Indian collaboration on the port stopped.

You are right. That guy is also right but he was right about a past. India is definitely isolated right now and that's what counts. And I see no end in sight unless India gives some major concessions to America. I have seen some Indian analysts themselves saying that after some time India will be forced to give major concessions to America. And what choices the Indians have to counter America??? The Pak-Saudi accord is yet another clear indication that the world doesn't respect India right now.

I say all above with some respect for the historic Indian hardwork in manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, education, foreign policy, IT industry until the recent past. But India right now is cornered and cornered really badly and Trump is well aware of that and he is going to milk that while still calling Modi a great 'friend'. Indians better watch some non-Modi media to understand what's happening.

 

[Meengla]

Economic factors are the building blocks of all international relations. Most other factors are aligned towards those goals.
Example -Turkish-Israel relationship. Till now, why was Turkey trading with Israel? Money. It has reduced just now after recent events.

Sorry to say but that kind of 'Bunya' [mercantile] mentality is precisely why India has landed where it has now. Nations are not some Borgs from the Star Trek shows: Nations are made of leaders and of intelligentsia, who are human beings, and inevitably those leaders think along tribal, ethnic, racial, religious connections to the point of throwing caution to the wind.
Maybe Indians don't understand that because the Hindu Indians are basically confined to a tiny geographical region of the world while the Muslims and the Christians are spread over many countries...

 

[RajaBaja]

You are right. That guy is also right but he was right about a past. India is definitely isolated right now and that's what counts. And I see no end in sight unless India gives some major concessions to America. I have seen some Indian analysts themselves saying that after some time India will be forced to give major concessions to America. And what choices the Indians have to counter America??? The Pak-Saudi accord is yet another clear indication that the world doesn't respect India right now.

I say all above with some respect for the historic Indian hardwork in manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, education, foreign policy, IT industry until the recent past. But India right now is cornered and cornered really badly and Trump is well aware of that and he is going to milk that while still calling Modi a great 'friend'. Indians better watch some non-Modi media to understand what's happening.

India is terribly isolated. I respect Indians, have worked with so many. One thing is for sure, they work hard and give work religious like priority. Just a few years ago, they had great reputation.

The rise of Modi had turned them very arrogant. The "need" to "prove" to the world they are some mighty big nation while other's should be beneath them. That arrogance drowned all that hard work for 30 years to create a brand.

Today and in the future to come until whenever, India can't recover it's brand. With anti-immigration policies taking shape across the world, people now link these issues directly to H1B and other Visa abuse directly by Indians. Meaning "Indian is bad for us" theory's rise.

Not good. Never be arrogant because the price to pay for it is what happened here.

 

[Master Chief]

No , but nice try.








I can already see signs of India trying to distance itself from Israel.


That would not be wise


But then again would modi even feel comfortable giving nethanyahoo a big hug these days?

You guys are going to disown Israel right?

Exactly.

Pakistan's manoeuvering is actually forcing India to make choices and/or concessions.

However India wishes to dress things up, it is today in a position where it MUST choose between USA and China and consequently, make concessions to one or the other.

With this latest move from Pakistan, it may soon be true that India has to choose between Israel and KSA, again with either option forcing concessions.

The Indian posters here will of course deny any of these harsh new realities even exist and instead default to a variety of mythologies to keep themselves sane.

 

[The SC]

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https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/1344867

 

[RajaBaja]

Exactly.

Pakistan's manoeuvering is actually forcing India to make choices and/or concessions.

However India wishes to dress things up, it is today in a position where it MUST choose between USA and China and consequently, make concessions to one or the other.

With this latest move from Pakistan, it may soon be true that India has to choose between Israel and KSA, again with either option forcing concessions.

The Indian posters here will of course deny any of these harsh new realities even exist and instead default to a variety of mythologies to keep themselves sane.

India is getting crushed between two rocks. One is US: nearly 8-10 million Indians, both legal and illegal. Source of near $ 60-70 billion annual foreign reserves.

Second is KSA. Between KSA + Qatar its 9 million Indians again a nearly $ 40-50 billion risk and permanent damage for current and future immigration aspects.

India really has no choice. It's economy runs on American businesses which I've not even touched.

 

[HRK]

My take on reports of more Mutual Defense Agreements with other countries

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[Ali_Baba]

I mean they're giving everyone else a run for their money. We bow down to our 150 IQ overlords.

Pakistan can do a lot lot lot lot better ....

 

[r3alist]

It looks more like a friends of convenience thing to me. China and Russia don't exactly see eye to eye, doesn't Russia still what occupy what has historically been Chinese territory?

Both are against the west right now

And that's a significant enough reason to bind them.

That takes guts and self-confidence.

That's the point, major Nations can take major decisions

Will China go to war for Russia? Will Russia go to war for China? A pact means mutual understanding and coming to each other's help when the need arises.

Who knows if the need arose, North Korean troops are in Ukraine, China is helping economically and diplomatically

India of the past was a lot more vocal about Palestine, did it change anything? Did China's verbal spat against Israeli diplomats bring about any change?

If you do not think there is a moral position to take then you are morally on a different plane.

That's kind of a spiritual or metaphysical separation.

One huge faction of the world is revolted to their core, and you have any deer shrugging their shoulders saying Israel is quite useful for us.


Ok.


That's a neat way to demonstrate you guys are different from the rest, if you are indifferent to this, watch the world being indifferent to you

That guy is also right but he was right about a past

I agree he was somewhat right, but once again it's an Indian ambition to always encourage and exaggerate separation of Muslim people from their faith as much as they can, I don't know if this became some genetic inherited trait. Absolutely consistent on it.

Now there's something these guys don't fundamentally get, different metaphysics you know, in how the Saudis can so abruptly signal brotherhood with Pakistan.

The materiality of the agreement is not the problem, it's the signaling that even with trade and modernity, the Arabs have been able to find Islamic unity with Pakistan, so quickly and so abruptly and so silently. The Indians had to reassure themselves that they were made aware

At least they can look at the trinket put on modi's neck.

 

[RajaBaja]

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https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/1344867

Yes sir. There are 4 countries READY to sign! 2 more told us they were ready on day 2 of Pak-Saudi signing ceremony. This is truly an amazing opportunity Pakistan has been given by the divine to rise!

I would caution against signing everyone in and later, deal with Arab politics and VETO options when time comes for action. I think Pak+Saudia+UAE+Qatar makes a good block. Turkey might have other issues due to NATO laws in joining another nation for defense? I don't know.

 

[Meengla]

Today and in the future to come until whenever, India can't recover it's brand. With anti-immigration policies taking shape across the world, people now link these issues directly to H1B and other Visa abuse directly by Indians. Meaning "Indian is bad for us" theory's rise.

Well, the resentment in the Western countries against India/Indians is partly the arrogance, partly the uncouth social behavior per some reports, but also partly Indians are too brown, too successful. If they were white Europeans then I believe things would be better. But, hey, the plight of the Indians in America/West is not some major consolation for Pakistan minus the flow of the $$ from the West to India.

With this latest move from Pakistan, it may soon be true that India has to choose between Israel and KSA, again with either option forcing concessions.
The Indian posters here will of course deny any of these harsh new realities even exist and instead default to a variety of mythologies to keep themselves sane.

India is indeed 'checkmated' as I keep quoting @RajaBaja from a few days ago. There is no sugar coating that Pakistan, China and Saudi Arabia (and more!) are on one side while India is on another side.

 

[r3alist]

Sorry to say but that kind of 'Bunya' [mercantile] mentality is precisely why India has landed where it has now. Nations are not some Borgs from the Star Trek shows: Nations are made of leaders and of intelligentsia, who are human beings, and inevitably those leaders think along tribal, ethnic, racial, religious connections to the point of throwing caution to the wind.
Maybe Indians don't understand that because the Hindu Indians are basically confined to a tiny geographical region of the world while the Muslims and the Christians are spread over many countries...

Exactly this, I would need to waffle on for too long to explain.

By the way let's not forget, Pakistan was cheered in the Iranian parliament recently.

Exactly.

Pakistan's manoeuvering is actually forcing India to make choices and/or concessions.

However India wishes to dress things up, it is today in a position where it MUST choose between USA and China and consequently, make concessions to one or the other.

With this latest move from Pakistan, it may soon be true that India has to choose between Israel and KSA, again with either option forcing concessions.

The Indian posters here will of course deny any of these harsh new realities even exist and instead default to a variety of mythologies to keep themselves sane.

Decision paralysis, it's quite sad to see for a big nation

 

[Broghil]

I asked you for resources with credentials!! This one link is the only one with credentials but the issue is, they are all the same, they have some text, some have more text. There is NO research done whatsoever!! Check out your other sources too. No "research" criteria or hypothesis or results of "research" making a "hypothesis"!

Have you ever done real research on anything and written a thesis? Where are the use cases, industries they went to, analyzed economy, analyzed that talent (or brain drain's) overseas activities, success, failures, how they helped others from Pakistan or some industry in Pakistan to grow. Whether they did any of it or not, etc, etc. Prove to me that the "brain drain" term can be APPLIED on Pakistan because it has an impact on something. ALL of the above items I mentioned, are a part of the evaluation criteria to come to a hypothesis that YES, based on ALL these factors RESEARCHED with X,Y,Z results, it is concluded it is "brain drain" or it's NOT brain drain because the effects were marginalized due to labor availability, etc, etc.

The links you shared, ONLY have text lines of "we think it's brain drain because 880k people left due to political instability"? WHAT BULLSH8? Where is the RESEARCH? evaluation on something like an economy or macroeconomic or industries?

EXAMPLE: A paper says a bunch of F-15's capabilities and it says F-15 is a stealth plane because America said so. I am sure like you, many Americans will believe in this paper! Now another paper says "During RCS tests from frontal aspects, the AESA radar in X band could produce a .0002 (ms)2 RCS, while in Y band in VHF, it produced .0005 (mc)2 RCS and in UHF S/X band, it produced .0005 (ms)2 RCS. Another study used random AESA beams from a simulated target of 100 miles to 5 miles and was able to identify the F-35 with similar RCS from previous studies to be the same. THEREFOR THE F-35 is CONCLUDED TO BE STEALTHY! This is how a research is done. Not writing text statements.

If these were your "research studies", my long posts should be papers too because that was what was in your "research studies", not study just text and "opinions"!

Post some REAL research per the criteria I defined for you. Someone here should know what "research study" is!

Do you seriously think there is no brain drain in Pakistan?

My late father was a teacher. One of his student got the Gold Medal in Space Science from Punjab University in the 1st Space Science batch from PU, but had to divert to computer science due to Job issues. He is now settled in Austria.

One other student was an amazing surgeon. He created many new ground breaking surgical techniques. But he himself told me and my father on a lunch in 2003 that he would have loved to do research work but he couldn't bcz he was not being supported by the govt. Later he went to KSA.

 

[mythbuster]

Yes sir. There are 4 countries READY to sign! 2 more told us they were ready on day 2 of Pak-Saudi signing ceremony. This is truly an amazing opportunity Pakistan has been given by the divine to rise!

I would caution against signing everyone in and later, deal with Arab politics and VETO options when time comes for action. I think Pak+Saudia+UAE+Qatar makes a good block. Turkey might have other issues due to NATO laws in joining another nation for defense? I don't know.

Who are the odd ones out?

 

[harpy1]

What had KSA a d Pak defense agreement to do with India choosing USA or china

What is your correlation here

The USA beef is to do with Russian oil which china buys even more of

I think you guys are creating fiction here