Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

Dariush-e Bozorg said:
@Persian Gulf @ShapurII

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The regime is a failure at all levels. As I said before, when you cannot guarantee the security of your researchers, how can you expect them to work for you and stay loyal to you?

This is the English version of the article they are referring to:

Implementation of Twin Wire-Arc Spray as a Promising method for production of 316 SS powders for Additive Manufacturing Applications
 
Shafagh said:
You have alot of emnity towards reformists, which I can understand. But when you say westoid, I wonder what your feelings are towards someone western educated Iranians who would want to go back to Iran and help contribute to change. If their policies were different from the current reformists, would you be open to western educated individuals?
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Westoid is someone infatuated with the west. Has nothing to do with education. If someone is educated in the west and wants to serve Iran ( without wanting Iran to become a copy of the West) then there is no problem in my view.
 
stay on topic

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ShapurII said:
We were there. We had a strong economy and a world-class air force. That's what tempted the Ayatollahs and the lefties to pick a fight with the United States at the time.

That's why it took them 30 years to finally isolate us and plan for our disintegration. It took them 30 years to cut us off from the world economy.

Remember in 2003 when George Bush tried to cut us off from the world economy right away but failed to do that because the Europeans were dependent on us and refused? It took them 5-6 years to reduce their dependence on us and finally they started their plan in 2009.
There used to be a time that Iran was one of the main oil suppliers to some countries in Europe like Italy. 28% of our oil exports were sent to the Europeans at some point in early 2000s.

The reality is that the Ayatollahs overplayed their hand while at the same time took half measures constantly. They took a step forward but as soon as they felt some danger to their own interests, they took a step back. Then they left their revolutionary ideology and fell into the trap of a corrupt, theocratic oligarchy that we are now.
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Iran’s economy in 1980’s was only strong because of oil. Not because they truly had any domestic technological ability or had received loads of ToT and foreign investment like South Korea, Turkey, Japan (in their respective times). By early mid 2000’s that elite airforce had now become 25 years old. And with no domestic capability they became obsolete. US Fraking oil and the restoration of Iraq’s oil production post Saddam made Iranian oil no longer a necessity on the world stage.

That’s what this government never anticipated was its oil not being vital to the entire world. The world moved on and Iran lost its oil leverage it had on the world.

As I said, short sightness lead by religious scholars rather than political intellectuals who knew how to play geopolitics to their advantages.
 
kastor ville said:
In short this is what happens when you get an octogenerian with no experience or training in charge of a growing and important country.
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Russia had Stalin, China Mao. Both had leaders that did much more harm and still their countries grew powerful. Stalin massacred millions of his own people and was drunk. Mao sent intellectuals to the farmland and farmers to the cities costing tens of millions to die in famine.

So despite inept rulers they still persevered. So we cannot blame the entire problems of the Republic on one man or two men. This is a systemic issue.
 
Persian Gulf said:
Bagheri and Hajizadeh delayed TP3 because they realised Iran had severe weaknesses in air defences
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They knew it all along. They knew it for years. Everyone assumed IRGC had all the answers and they couldn’t be corrupt or faulty.

But it was a mistake to allow Syria to fall without raising a finger, to allow Hezbollah to fall without raising a finger, to allow Gaza to be turned into Grozny without raising a finger, and lastly to allow its own soil to be hit by Israel in tit for tat for years by sabotage and assignation and not doing anything.

Back in 2023 people said “how can we attack Israel, direct conflict is what the enemy wants blah blah blah. Iran has a secret master plan blah blah”

Now Iran lost everything it spent 20 years building. It all started in 2010 with the war against Syria. Then the war took a direct phase in 2020 by taking the chief Architect of Iran’s Axis (Solemani) out in Baghdad. He should have never been cleared to keep traveling to fronts. This bravado and martyrdom personality cost Iran dearly in the coming years when no one could pick up his mantle.

So many critical mistakes in the past 15 years. It doesn’t seem like Iran can turn this around at this point.

I’m pretty shocked at Iran in this position without any moves up its sleeve.
 
Immortals said:
Iran’s economy in 1980’s was only strong because of oil. Not because they truly had any domestic technological ability or had received loads of ToT and foreign investment like South Korea, Turkey, Japan (in their respective times). By early mid 2000’s that elite airforce had now become 25 years old. And with no domestic capability they became obsolete. US Fraking oil and the restoration of Iraq’s oil production post Saddam made Iranian oil no longer a necessity on the world stage.

That’s what this government never anticipated was its oil not being vital to the entire world. The world moved on and Iran lost its oil leverage it had on the world.

As I said, short sightness lead by religious scholars rather than political intellectuals who knew how to play geopolitics to their advantages.
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That elite air force would've stayed elite because we would've purchased new stuff and upgraded our fleet constantly.

They were importing tons of high-tech equipment from the US and even hired top American scientists to transfer technology to Iran. Iran was ahead of Turkey and South Korea in 70s, but not Japan. I don't get where you get this sort of information from.

The best example of that is uranium enrichment itself. Iran invited Jeff Eerkins to Iran in early 70s, a leading US scientist in laser isotope separation at the time, to develop AVLIS in Iran with our funding. Iran had access to both AVLIS and MVLIS when this technology was highly confidential and was considered cutting edge even for world powers. :)

Even today, 5 decades later, laser isotope separation is considered a strategic technology because it allows a country to enrich uranium without attracting much attention.
 
ShapurII said:
That elite air force would've stayed elite because we would've purchased new stuff and upgraded our fleet constantly.

They were importing tons of high-tech equipment from the US and even hired top American scientists to transfer technology to Iran. Iran was ahead of Turkey and South Korea in 70s, but not Japan. I don't get where you get this sort of information from.

The best example of that is uranium enrichment itself. Iran invited Jeff Eerkins to Iran in early 70s, a leading US scientist in laser isotope separation at the time, to develop AVLIS in Iran with our funding. Iran had access to both AVLIS and MVLIS when this technology was highly confidential and was considered cutting edge even for world powers. :)

Even today, 5 decades later, laser isotope separation is considered a strategic technology because it allows a country to enrich uranium without attracting much attention.
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I think we are having different conversations. For your scenario to be valid, the Shah must have never fallen. That’s alternative history and one can go back and say if “Hitler never pulled scientists off the Nazi nuclear program” or “never invaded Soviet Union when he had a non aggression pact with Stalin”. You can find history littered with bonehead moves in hindsight. Can’t change the past.

My point was this [new] government from the start took a radical stance against America rather than being more pragmatic until it could stand on its own two feet. All because it had oil underneath those same feet it thought it was untouchable and inherited the Shah’s western built economy and oil field.

This leadership broke all diplomatic norms by kidnapping US embassy diplomats which is only done by terrorist groups and apartheid’s, not civilized nation states. They orchestrated the Beruit Barrack bombings kill hundreds of US marines.

The embassy takeover cemented US permanent animosity to Iran. And despite that Reagan still gave Iran a chance to be in the Western orbit. But going against the Jewish Led world order was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Iran took on the strongest players in the world when it still couldn’t even walk on its own two feet. It thought a religiously passionate society would last forever. But most of those passionate folks died in human wave attacks against Saddam or from old age/natural causes in the decades after.

The brain drain that followed likely cost Iran trillions of dollars in GDP/opportunity costs as its best and brightest minds immigrated to Canada, Europe, and U.S for better lives.
 
Immortals said:
I think we are having different conversations. For your scenario to be valid, the Shah must have never fallen. That’s alternative history and one can go back and say if “Hitler never pulled scientists off the Nazi nuclear program” or “never invaded Soviet Union when he had a non aggression pact with Stalin”. You can find history littered with bonehead moves in hindsight. Can’t change the past.

My point was this [new] government from the start took a radical stance against America rather than being more pragmatic until it could stand on its own two feet. All because it had oil underneath those same feet it thought it was untouchable and inherited the Shah’s western built economy and oil field.

This leadership broke all diplomatic norms by kidnapping US embassy diplomats which is only done by terrorist groups and apartheid’s, not civilized nation states. They orchestrated the Beruit Barrack bombings kill hundreds of US marines.

The embassy takeover cemented US permanent animosity to Iran. And despite that Reagan still gave Iran a chance to be in the Western orbit. But going against the Jewish Led world order was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Iran took on the strongest players in the world when it still couldn’t even walk on its own two feet. It thought a religiously passionate society would last forever. But most of those passionate folks died in human wave attacks against Saddam or from old age/natural causes in the decades after.

The brain drain that followed likely cost Iran trillions of dollars in GDP/opportunity costs as its best and brightest minds immigrated to Canada, Europe, and U.S for better lives.
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Oh, I see. You're right. I thought you were talking about the scenario that he hadn't fallen.

You're spot-on about the rest. We got the worst kind of revolution possible. We got Islamists with little academic education mixed with the lefties who couldn't care less about Iran and were fueled by anti-American sentiments. That's like the worst combination.

Even if something happens this time, we're very likely to get another bad combination as well. Iranians do not make good revolutionaries, it seems.
 
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