Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Shafagh]

Iran never seemed to even try upgrading the Mig29's it has, so something tells me it was never seen as viable for defense.

From what I have read, IRIAF pilots like the Mig 29 for its maneuverability.

They received mid life upgrade, but never received M upgrade because of disagreement over where they would be done. Russia wanted Iran to send them to their facilities in Russia to do the work, but Iran insisted on technicians coming to Iran to do it out of fear that they would get seized.

 

[kastor ville]

From what I have read, IRIAF pilots like the Mig 29 for its maneuverability.

They received mid life upgrade, but never received M upgrade because of disagreement over where they would be done. Russia wanted Iran to send them to their facilities in Russia to do the work, but Iran insisted on technicians coming to Iran to do it out of fear that they would get seized.

Yeah, man, what I would give to find out which genius kept us from buying fighters from Russia or China all of these years, that mofo needs to be paraded down the street in a chicken suit, and pelted with tomatoes.

 

[mulj]

Any changes in last couple of months happened?

 

[ToddE]

From what I have read, IRIAF pilots like the Mig 29 for its maneuverability.

MIG-29 always lost against F-14A in annual dogfights held by IRIAF even with MIG-29 having R-73 while Tomcat had obsolete AIM-9J. Recent one was last year I think. Its an OK Point defender due to short range and high T/W, but by no means it can compete against western proper 4th generation fighters outside the cover of IADS. Russian Combat Suite (Avionics+Armaments) are an easy generation behind western ones. Old N019 Rubin (IRIAF) or Zhuk ME PESA (MIG-29M/SMT) radars cant compete against western AESA AN/APG-68(V)/703/79/81 or the Captor-M/E, RBE-2 etc. PESA is jammed easily at distance. Same goes for shorter ranged easily jammed R-77E vs longer ranged dual guided AIM-120C/D. The ECCM package is just not even comparable. Russia is having a hard time marketing MIG-35 for the very same reason. IRIAF rejected the idea in favor of SU-35S before which atleast had the range, payload and R-37 Long Ranged BVR.

Some 30 years ago, only where the advantage was on MIG-29 side was its combination of HMD Slaved HOBS R-73M. German AF used to take part in NATO DACT excersize where they found that MIG-29 9.13 with Shul HMD+R-73 could take on an early F-16 block A/B in close dogfight but that advantage was gone soon in F-16C/D, F-18EF or F-15C all of whom got their own HMD slaved All Aspect HOBS AIM-9X with AIM-120C/D. Now the gap has only became wider with newer generation of western jets.

Iranian advantage is in the fact that because Iran is one of the earliest users of MIG-29 with 35 years of experience, any further airframes can fit in IRIAF's infrasteructure within days. No training or russian assistance is required. Even if MLUed old airframes arrive, atleast point defence within IADS cover can be strengthened. By no means even a MIG-29M/SMT/35 can go into Iraqi Airspace to pose a challenege to incoming IAF F-15I, F-35I. The plane has no LR-BVR or AESA Radar that can escape American E-warfare that accompanies IAF invasion of Iraqi AIrspace. If it goes out, its PESA radar will be jammed from 200 KM even before it can search an F-35I let alone track.

They received mid life upgrade, but never received M upgrade because of disagreement over where they would be done. Russia wanted Iran to send them to their facilities in Russia to do the work, but Iran insisted on technicians coming to Iran to do it out of fear that they would get seized.

IAIO pulled an extensive overhaul in Mehrabad but can we call that MLU ?

 

[ToddE]

Yeah, man, what I would give to find out which genius kept us from buying fighters from Russia or China all of these years, that mofo needs to be paraded down the street in a chicken suit, and pelted with tomatoes.

You mean Khamenei ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

A fully upgraded and armed FMC fleet of 44 F-14AM, 24 MIG-29M, 70 Kowsar (all hypotheticals) would have saved some lives. Atleast F-14AM armed with Fakour-90 would not have allowed IAF to launch SOWs from above Iraq.

Whoever ceased this project citing "lack of funds" is responsible for deaths due to ALBMs strikes from Iraqi Airspace. No other plane could have reached there in time with LR-BVR otherwise unless SU-35S would have arrived.

How many flight worthy f14 airframe you have seen ? Investing on them those made much sense anymore.
To me only path for IRIAF is kowsar equip modernlze version of Sparrow missile and modern sidewinder

 

[ToddE]

How many flight worthy f14 airframe you have seen ? Investing on them those made much sense anymore.

When IRIAF could easily see that government would fail to purchase anything in "Multi-Role Air-Superiority" from Russia or China they should have focused on reviving the F-14A fleet at all costs. In fact F-14AM program started under this pretext some 12-15 years ago to create an SU-35S out of an F-14A.

An extensive MLU+Upgradation to an Full Mission Capable F-14AM (Digital AWG-9, Azarakhsh HOBS WVR, Fakour/Maghsoud BVR, Datalink) would have costed 20 Million USD. A fleet of 42-44 such aircrafts would barely cost 1 Billion USD. In return they would make sure IAF would not be lobbing ALBMs from Iraq into Iran. Even a fully armed MIG-29M cant do that.

To me only path for IRIAF is kowsar equip modernlze version of Sparrow missile and modern sidewinder

For Advanced Combat Training, CAS, CAP, Anti-Drone/UCAV, Anti Cruise Missile, Point Defence within IADS, yes A fleet of 120-150 Kowsars should have existed. They would have secured cities inside Iran and created crop of fully trained modern fighter Pilots.

But they are too under powered or small to do anything above Persian Gulf or Iraq. There you need powerful MRCAs like F-15E, SU-35S or 4.5 generation low RCS fighters like EF-2000 T4 atleast.

 

[mangekyo]

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Mig 29 spotted over Tehran. One of the new deliveries?

Ouff. A mig29, Trump and Netanyahu are pissing themselves

 

[ToddE]

Wild theory time. May be some MIGs were destroyed during war, on ground. Russia sent old airframes as replacement and MP thought they are new additions.

Food for thought? anyone?

 

[ToddE]

Ouff. A mig29, Trump and Netanyahu are pissing themselves

PS. HQ-9 is a tried tested failed SAM system.

 

[Ali_Baba]

PS. HQ-9 is a tried tested failed SAM system.

HQ-9 worked quite well in Pakistan, having shot down S400 missiles that were aiming for PAF jets... that is how precise it was, that it could itself shoot down another SAM missile.

And to boot, the S400 could not save itself from CM-400AKGs, with 2 x Cheese board radars having been destroyed by JF17s firing off CM-400AKG.

So, what is a successful SAM system in your book?

 

[ToddE]

^

- Failed against Iranian Fateh-313(BM) + Shahed 136
- Failed against Indo-Russian P-800 Oniks/Brahmos (CM) + Israeli Harpy

3 domains of intercept failure i.e. Ballistic, Cruise, Loitering.

.............

Guys, has IIAF/IRIAF operated its own SAM system of any type ever?

 

[Ali_Baba]

^

- Failed against Iranian Fateh-313(BM) + Shahed 136
- Failed against Indo-Russian P-800 Oniks/Brahmos (CM) + Israeli Harpy

3 domains of intercept failure i.e. Ballistic, Cruise, Loitering.

.............

Guys, has IIAF/IRIAF operated its own SAM system of any type ever?

We will soon see how good the Iranian home made IADS is when round #2 with Israel starts. They didn't do very well in round #1, judging by how many Israeli drones wondered around Iran, with very few of them actually getting shot down.

We can assume report of Iran procuring HQ-9Bs, is incorrect/false because they are not deemed good enough?

 

[BigMela2onin]

^

- Failed against Iranian Fateh-313(BM) + Shahed 136

When did this happen?

 

[OldTwilight]

HQ-9 worked quite well in Pakistan, having shot down S400 missiles that were aiming for PAF jets... that is how precise it was, that it could itself shoot down another SAM missile.

And to boot, the S400 could not save itself from CM-400AKGs, with 2 x Cheese board radars having been destroyed by JF17s firing off CM-400AKG.

So, what is a successful SAM system in your book?

why you think china would offer us the same hq9 they offered to Pakistan!?