JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[bravo_1]

USA: Literally basically built a huge chunk of PAF's ASR network via TPS77's and then a follow up sale of TPS77MRR in the previous trump admin. Also literally offered to sell F-16V's to PAF. Not to mention is targeting more aircraft sales to the PAF.

Heard Pakistan sent a first batch of Minerals to US worth 500M, i think we would eventually see a comeback of US-PAK defense deals.

 

[Ak01]

Heard Pakistan sent a first batch of Minerals to US worth 500M, i think we would eventually see a comeback of US-PAK defense deals.

i really doubt sidhu was in the white house for funsies, for acm to go there must have been a serious talk

 

[bravo_1]

i really doubt sidhu was in the white house for funsies, for acm to go there must have been a serious talk

Yea we should not be too optimistic for big tickets item, maybe some equipments for our sof...

 

[m52k85]

Speaking of high and dry, lets see, what happened in 65? Who stopped the spares and who came to fill in the void after. Fast forward to 71, who's promised fleet didn't show up? Kargil, why was PAF unable to challenge IAF dropping LGBs on frontlines?

How did Pakistan fill the void of those cancelled F-16s? If not for the joint dev of Jf-17 we would be a 300 F-7 fleet airforce by the 2010s. There's a limit to how much one can spin this stuff man. Sheesh, I wish you guys could sit down with the likes of Shahid Latif and Kaiser Tufail.

If PAF is again flirting with US offensive equipment... fool me once shame on you, fool me again.. Aik bil se do bar dhas, phir dhas dhas dhas..

 

[Ak01]

Yea we should not be too optimistic for big tickets item, maybe some equipments for our sof...

sidhu wouldnt go for sof though...

 

[Ak01]

How did Pakistan fill the void of those cancelled F-16s? If not for the joint dev of Jf-17 we would be a 300 F-7 fleet airforce by the 2010s. There's a limit to how much one can spin this stuff man. Sheesh, I wish you guys could sit down with the likes of Shahid Latif and Kaiser Tufail.

If PAF is again flirting with US offensive equipment... fool me once shame on you, fool me again.. Aik bil se do bar dhas, phir dhas dhas dhas..

in '71 kissinger literally sent supplies via Iran/Jordan

Why was China our only option?

If the JF-17 didnt happen, its not like there werent other options lol.

Heck, Atlas Cheetah joint dev would have setup a genuine industry in Pakistan. Infact, transferring the entire Mirage 3/5 production setup into Pak so we could develop our own Cheetah/Kfir/3NG would have once again, spun up a proper Pak industry, these are airframes were intimately familiar with, moreso than JF-17 because we're not held back by said partner.

Did you also conveniently forget the whole Mirage F1 offer?

And yes, I owe Tufail saab a flight when he pops over to the UK! though its been a couple of years, so god knows if he still remembers, but i certainly do lol!

 

[m52k85]

well, if thats the case why is Europe inviting KSA into GCAP?

They will take the funding, develop the product, call it a fail, and do a 2.0 from which the Saudis will be left out. F-16 Block-60 style.

 

[m52k85]

Why was China our only option?

If the JF-17 didnt happen, its not like there werent other options lol.

Heck, Atlas Cheetah joint dev would have setup a genuine industry in Pakistan. Infact, transferring the entire Mirage 3/5 production setup into Pak so we could develop our own Cheetah/Kfir/3NG would have once again, spun up a proper Pak industry, these are airframes were intimately familiar with, moreso than JF-17 because we're not held back by said partner.

Did you also conveniently forget the whole Mirage F1 offer?

And yes, I owe Tufail saab a flight when he pops over to the UK! though its been a couple of years, so god knows if he still remembers, but i certainly do lol!

And how would a AESA version, with serious MAWS and longstick of the Cheetah develop? Would something in the class of J-10 plus a dual pulse missile be available in 2025?

I know block 70/72 was available, but did you see the price on that thing. Not to mention, Amraam-D would never come with it.

 

[m52k85]

Guys it so obvious, one of PAFs job is to provide top cover against a strike on our strategic assets. Anyone willing to trust american tech integration into the kill chain, what can I say.. you will be played into a Abottabad or Qatar.

Its a matter of geo-politics.. China does not have any room for any design on our strategic assets. nuff said.

 

[Ak01]

And how would a AESA version, with serious MAWS and longstick of the Cheetah develop? Would something in the class of J-10 plus a dual pulse missile be available in 2025?

Your entire point was without JF-17 and Chinas assistance with it, PAF would have been a 300 F7 force, something demonstrably false- there were options available.

The cheetah literally got an integrated ECM suite nearly 50 years before the JF-17 did lol. And PS, the Kfir block 60 was due to recieve the ELM/M 2052- so yes, the Cheetah could have absolutely have been fitted with an AESA.

In terms of missiles, the a darter development began 20 years ago and it was a bloody good missile, again, SA was very open to exporting and production agreements, which WE lost out on, EDGE of UAE picked it up and has a pretty good headstart.

Not to mention, SA had been working on 'long sticks' before the PAF even got into the BVR era.

 

[Ak01]

Guys it so obvious, one of PAFs job is to provide top cover against a strike on our strategic assets. Anyone willing to trust american tech integration into the kill chain, what can I say.. you will be played into a Abottabad or Qatar.

Its a matter of geo-politics.. China does not have any room for any design on our strategic assets. nuff said.

the tinfoil hats are out in full swing

 

[Corax]

This was not because of Pakistan, but rather, an issue with China. Germans are probably one of the most pro pakistan govt's in Europe. It baffles me too, but Bilal literally has an example where Diehl's rep told him, dont worry about export clearences for RAM, we will ensure you get them.

Not to mention the fact that all of PN's SWAT/NG attack sub options feature siemens fuel cells if im not mistaken- Germany also provided the entire sensor stack for our agosta MLU, and sold a SHIT TON of TRML's to Pak (via MPDR upgrade package)! Heck, it would be surprising if our national radars were not derived from German ones.




No no, France wanted to transfer the ENTIRE Mirage F1 production setup to Pakistan, im not even talking about mirage 3/5. Agostas are hardly legacy in terms of submarine life cycles, 25 years old gives it atleast another nearly 2 decades in service. Also, not to mention the literal custom scorpene variant.

Typhoons were not offered in 2010, rather, during Aman's tenure, so within the last decade, during the whole FATF drama as that killed the deal due to financing (?)- deal included new airframes+tranche 1s for free as far as i know


Pakistan actually shot itself in the foot here. We have SERIOUS issues with safeguarding tech, we have probably some of the poorest operational secrecy in the world, like hell, i bet you every aspect of our military is compromised by Indians, Israelis, Americans etc. I mean hell, its so easy, they literally leaked the entire J-10 contract, they literally leaked every single contract and document of seriously secret projects that were running in the country. I mean bruh, i literally had the addresses of the PARENTS of some MBDA contractors as part of their NOC's. I had their passports, hotels they were at, the projects they worked on, etc etc.

Infact, there was a recent databreach at PAC, i dont have tons of information on it, but it was a pretty significant one, where some French guy had access to a ton of information- i dont know what or why the motivation was behind it, but fucking hell, it was pathetic. Also, not to mention the fact that with a little buttering up, Pakistanis tend to chirp, we love having our egos stroked, we're like the easiest people on earth to get information out of lol.

So no, i dont think the US would sell F-35's to us, in the same way i think the ONLY way China would sell J-35's to Pakistan is with SERIOUS safeguards in place and US style TT's.


I dont know why Israel is on our minds 24/7- your immediate threats are Afghanistan, India and Iran, the only reaosn Pak and Israel are skittish is because retards in the GoP every other month make a nuke threat to them...


The German Turk relationship is far, far more complex than "Protecting Israel" bro.


well, if thats the case why is Europe inviting KSA into GCAP?


Bingo- we're customers, they're suppliers, so we should get off our knees and stop worshipping them. Its a normal relationship and we should look for the best interests of Pakistan...


So what has stopped us from getting armed to the teeth? So far our most groundbreaking deal has been 20 J-10s. Anyway, Pak and Israel will never go face to face, it is purely a wet dream, literally.


Italy, Germany, two powerhouses in Europe, the other two, France and the UK are woo'ing India. Germans OTOH are shaky on getting too close to India, seems pretty balanced.

If we have such poor operational security and the indians know every, how come they underestimated the PL15 and capabilities of the PAF so much? They should have steam rolled over the PAF.

 

[Ak01]

If we have such poor operational security and the indians know every, how come they underestimated the PL15 and capabilities of the PAF so much? They should have steam rolled over the PAF.

I think the point went over your head.

 

[Corax]

I think the point went over your head.

Just trying to figure out the jist of your post, not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if security was really that bad, wondering why the Indians knew so little.

 

[Ak01]

Just trying to figure out the jist of your post, not sure if you're being sarcastic, but if security was really that bad, wondering why the Indians knew so little.

i dont think a single engagement is conclusive of anything unfortunately.

There is no decisive answer for what the Indians did and what happened that night, only the PAF, IAF and God know. If the Indians didnt have information, thats an intelligence failure on their part, but denying that the situation is pretty poor would be burying your head in the sand.

Anyway, i dont shit on Pak for the sake of it, i shit on Pak because criticism is the first step to improving.