PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Starlord]

I don't see anything that hints at us actually getting any Vipers.

Nor have I seen anything to indicate that we're getting upgrades for the ones we have.

If anyone has further info that I may have missed, do share...

You have spend enough time of PDF to know that every time any leader go to America, the rumor mill go wild with F-16's and upgrades... most of the time we don't get anything but sometimes we do ended up getting something.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

I don't see anything that hints at us actually getting any Vipers.

Nor have I seen anything to indicate that we're getting upgrades for the ones we have.

If anyone has further info that I may have missed, do share...

All speculation especially after PAF chief visiting USA as people say there is no other valid explanations that why he needed to go to USA.

 

[Ak01]

So, we should hear of a bigger AMRAAM deal down the line via DSCA.

not necessarily,

I dont see this being a deal this small, remember, sidhu went in person to washington, thats not a small deal.

i think DSCA would be bypassed here and this be a deal with RTX direct to prevent congressional meddling.

If you look back to the TPS77MRR procurement, that was done sans DSCA to prevent this exact thing during the previous trump admin. They're seemingly ok with granting export permits to DCS'.

I suspect the deal is to equip the block 52+'s for the time being. So atleast enough AAM's for those.

 

[Yasser76]

I suspect this may not. be only DoD Contracts we see for Pakistan coming up, also good chance our purchase was financed by the Saudis (who are also mentioned within this contract too)

 

[puttputt]

not necessarily,

I dont see this being a deal this small, remember, sidhu went in person to washington, thats not a small deal.

i think DSCA would be bypassed here and this be a deal with RTX direct to prevent congressional meddling.

If you look back to the TPS77MRR procurement, that was done sans DSCA to prevent this exact thing during the previous trump admin. They're seemingly ok with granting export permits to DCS'.

I suspect the deal is to equip the block 52+'s for the time being. So atleast enough AAM's for those.

hmmm...the deal is $2.5 B with a $41.6 M additive adjustment. Meaning, the PAF deal is worth around $41.6 M. If you look at the DSCA figures, the total run up of these C8 deals is around $2.5 M per missile. Let's say the total possible support cost is 100%, that's still $1.2 M per missile at flyaway, so the PAF deal would likely cover around 25-35 missiles right now.

I also think if a bigger deal is in the works, it'll be announced via DSCA. It's a different USA now in that Congress won't get in the way of anything as it could literally mean risking ICE and/or US Reserves up your cities.

 

[Ak01]

hmmm...the deal is $2.5 B with a $41.6 M additive adjustment. Meaning, the PAF deal is worth around $41.6 M. If you look at the DSCA figures, the total run up of these C8 deals is around $2.5 M per missile. Let's say the total possible support cost is 100%, that's still $1.2 M per missile at flyaway, so the PAF deal would likely cover around 25-35 missiles right now.

as i understand it, this may not necessarily be an order, rather, a precursor to an order, especially due to the timelines for this contract.

Because, the initial contract, was for the following:

This contract involves unclassified Foreign Military Sales to Bahrain, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Finland, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom, which accounts for approximately 39% of the contract value. these were the pre modificaton countries

Then modification P00026 added the following states
Australia

• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Germany
• Greece
• Israel
• Kuwait
• Lithuania
• Oman
• Pakistan
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Sweden
• Taiwan
• Turkey

so that 41 million is split between an additional 17 states, what this extra 41m will be for is likely a precursor covering administrative costs for the time being, and or long lead items or initial support contracts.

I suspect, in a year or two down the line, this will all be readjusted to reflect the real contract.

Effectively, what i think this is, is that a PAF order is 'in the system', the initial costings etc are being paid, admin work is being done and it will be paid for/numbers decided once it progresses further and the production line clears up

 

[hasssanali8998]

hmmm...the deal is $2.5 B with a $41.6 M additive adjustment. Meaning, the PAF deal is worth around $41.6 M. If you look at the DSCA figures, the total run up of these C8 deals is around $2.5 M per missile. Let's say the total possible support cost is 100%, that's still $1.2 M per missile at flyaway, so the PAF deal would likely cover around 25-35 missiles right now.

I also think if a bigger deal is in the works, it'll be announced via DSCA. It's a different USA now in that Congress won't get in the way of anything as it could literally mean risking ICE and/or US Reserves up your cities.

yeah maybe 35 for now and bigger contract later , also how much time does it usually take i know US takes a lot of time to fulfil orders i hope it not 5 years for a few missiles

 

[Yasser76]

as i understand it, this may not necessarily be an order, rather, a precursor to an order, especially due to the timelines for this contract.

Because, the initial contract, was for the following:

This contract involves unclassified Foreign Military Sales to Bahrain, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Finland, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom, which accounts for approximately 39% of the contract value. these were the pre modificaton countries

Then modification P00026 added the following states
Australia

• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Germany
• Greece
• Israel
• Kuwait
• Lithuania
• Oman
• Pakistan
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Slovakia
• Sweden
• Taiwan
• Turkey

so that 41 million is split between an additional 17 states, what this extra 41m will be for is likely a precursor covering administrative costs for the time being, and or long lead items or initial support contracts.

I suspect, in a year or two down the line, this will all be readjusted to reflect the real contract.

Effectively, what i think this is, is that a PAF order is 'in the system', the initial costings etc are being paid, admin work is being done and it will be paid for/numbers decided once it progresses further and the production line clears up

Yeah, guess we need technical and admin stuff related to what is almost a new missile system, so manuals, software, maintenance training etc

As someone posted earlier, if the APG-68(V9) units cannot properly use this missile to its full range the more this potentially feels like a precursor to a F-16V upgrade and/or sale to PAF

 

[Fatman17]

The third LOA provides for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of their current fleet of forty-six aircraft. The Pakistan MLU avionics upgrade kits are designed to provide the Pakistan Block 15A/B aircraft with many of the same capabilities as the new Block 52 F-16s that the PAF is procuring.

Global Security. Org

 

[puttputt]

The third LOA provides for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of their current fleet of forty-six aircraft. The Pakistan MLU avionics upgrade kits are designed to provide the Pakistan Block 15A/B aircraft with many of the same capabilities as the new Block 52 F-16s that the PAF is procuring.

Global Security. Org

We're well beyond any of this...that info was re: the original Peace Drive deal and the accompanying MLU upgrades.

 

[Fatman17]

Is this correct or needs updating please

 

[Salza]

I was calling for AIM120Ds for a long time and finally we are having them soon. '*****' will be really upset now, really upset.
P.S Pak will not use their F16 in a defensive role moving forward. We have complete Trump backing now to use as we want. Block 52s with AIM120Ds and J10s with Pl15s will create havoc for any type of Indian jet

 

[rafale]

likely at the end/middle, we were added to a pre-existing contract.

because it would allow to bypass the long congressional FMS approval? I think they finally found a way.....but the modification is just 40 million USD and assuming all of it is for Pakistan, that's just 20 or so missiles......and which F-16s will fire them? don't they need the new APG 8X radars?

 

[rafale]

I think this is just a pre-cursor to bigger V kits and AMRAAM D deal later on.........V Kits would need congressional approval and might come after the mid term elections........

 

[Ali_Baba]

because it would allow to bypass the long congressional FMS approval? I think they finally found a way.....but the modification is just 40 million USD and assuming all of it is for Pakistan, that's just 20 or so missiles......and which F-16s will fire them? don't they need the new APG 8X radars?

If the sale goes through without meddling, then further orders can be placed that are larger and given it will capability that Pakistan will possess at that point, it wont be introducing new capability that 'affects the military balance' etc..