PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Ali_Baba]

If the upgrade costs are kept manageable ( ie what ever is required for the C8 and AESA radar ), then worth it. However, we should not be spending $40million on upgrades, when better more capable solutions for Pakistan are here and also on the horizon. Hopefully no new procurement of F16s are on the table at all, just upgrades.

Let's see what happens ( if anything does ). The American administration turns on a dime these days, so I wouldn't write any cheques on this front, and if so, keep them small and ideally payment on delivery!

 

[SABRE]

Yes, it will take a few years for us to get our missiles, so you are right, PAF sees F-16 as part of it's core defence for next 10-15 years.

That is interesting in the light of the massive investments we are making in Chinese led ecosystem

If things go as planned, I would say F-16s would last us till 2050. That is the timeline USAF has also set for retiring it's F-16s.

 

[aurelianpilled]

J-35 come in next 2-3 years

How sure are we that we would get the J-35As in this short period of time since barely less than ~20ish (both variants combined) are currently operational as per various Chinese accounts on X. China would most likely fill up its own squadrons till 2028-2030 and will then proceed to the exports. What do you think?

 

[Yasser76]

How sure are we that we would get the J-35As in this short period of time since barely less than ~20ish (both variants combined) are currently operational as per various Chinese accounts on X. China would most likely fill up its own squadrons till 2028-2030 and will then proceed to the exports. What do you think?

Unsure, just my estimation. 3 years = around 2028-2029 anyway

 

[Yasser76]

If the upgrade costs are kept manageable ( ie what ever is required for the C8 and AESA radar ), then worth it. However, we should not be spending $40million on upgrades, when better more capable solutions for Pakistan are here and also on the horizon. Hopefully no new procurement of F16s are on the table at all, just upgrades.

Let's see what happens ( if anything does ). The American administration turns on a dime these days, so I wouldn't write any cheques on this front, and if so, keep them small and ideally payment on delivery!

True, however from what I have read the APG-68(V9) can only cue so far out at 60 miles off. This missile has a 100 mile range.

Odd if we bought it and plan to not utilise it properly no?

 

[FarhanSiddiqui]

F-16s are very capable fighters and should be upgraded. The cost of upgrades will be steep but we should remember that for more than a decade US had refused upgrades so we must take this opportunity to upgrade them.

 

[m52k85]

The whole C-8/D-3 saga could just be a way of PAF and Pak Gov diversifying at an opportune time as opposed to getting anything better.

By 'opportune' I mean this has come around the time of trade and tariff negotiation, and the Trump admin has regularly pushed greater US weapon sales in these negotiations. For, Pakistan's part this could have meant when US brought up the issue, our very capable leadership would have said Huzoor, salute, we have always been ready to buy. So Pak Gov manages its exposure to US wrath in the Geo Political sphere, @Oscar has already pointed out the number of visits Pakistani officials were undertaking to China, so this could be closely coordinated.

The PAF diversifies since now IAF have to plan for another attack vector. I do not think Amraam C-8 beats the Pl-15, it is silly to think a single pulse rocket motor could have better kinematics than a dual pulse. Even the info on Amraam-D being truely dual pulse is dubious. Some cite information from the known makers of Amraam motors. Some reconcile this ambiguity by stating the D varient uses a booster, this aligns with other informaiton about how carrying the D varient as opposed to the C8 variant requires modification to carrier platform software. The C8 is said to be replacement in place of earlier C variants.

Finally, people on here and else where have said that the only difference between C-8 and D is software, two things to recognise here. One, if D is a C-8 with a booster and additional changes to the software of launching platform (together with the expected difference in the missile software), then yes it could be sold as only a difference in software since you can conveniently ignore the booster as it does not form an integral part of the missile. Second, a difference in software alone could stand for a lot. The amraam D entered IOC in 2006, the latest announced tests were from 2024, based around 'flying the missile better', optimising flight trajectory and engagement logic could alone account for much of the 'added range'.

 

[m52k85]

Extra brownie points for whoever can find a source that says Aim-120D or D-3 uses a restartable dual pulse motor. (The key word here is restartable, since a boost-sustain motor is sometimes also called a dual pulse motor even though it truely is not).

 

[ghazi52]

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[Yasser76]

F-16s are very capable fighters and should be upgraded. The cost of upgrades will be steep but we should remember that for more than a decade US had refused upgrades so we must take this opportunity to upgrade them.

Lets see. C8/D notification was on Sep 30th, US Government shut down means it has not been updated since. Often weapons procurements come several at the same time.

Very likely we may see more Commercial contracts and DSCA notifications very soon.

Below was cost of 10 F-16Vs for Peru but remember Perus has no training, experiance on F-16 and no weapons and facilities.

https://www.dsca.mil/Press-Media/Major-Arms-Sales/Article-Display/Article/4304541/peru-f-16-aircraft

Cost for V is around $75 million. More accurate coat would be we get our planes same price at Bahrain, who already have operated F-16 for long time like PAF. They got 16 brand new Vs for $1.1 Billion.

F-16 Block 70 jets embark on Bahrain-bound ferry flight - Airforce Technology

Lockheed Martin has commenced the transportation of the initial set of F-16 Block 70 aircraft from Greenville, South Carolina, to Bahrain.

www.airforce-technology.com

However Jordan paid $4.2 Billion for just 12 F-16Vs, making them out to be $350 million a piece!!!!!

Jordan Signs for New-generation F-16 Fighters | AIN

The Middle East nation's air force has operated Fighting Falcon fighters for many years, and is now refreshing the fleet with AESA-equipped aircraft.

www.ainonline.com

 

[maxpane]

Lets see. C8/D notification was on Sep 30th, US Government shut down means it has not been updated since. Often weapons procurements come several at the same time.

Very likely we may see more Commercial contracts and DSCA notifications very soon.

Below was cost of 10 F-16Vs for Peru but remember Perus has no training, experiance on F-16 and no weapons and facilities.

https://www.dsca.mil/Press-Media/Major-Arms-Sales/Article-Display/Article/4304541/peru-f-16-aircraft

Cost for V is around $75 million. More accurate coat would be we get our planes same price at Bahrain, who already have operated F-16 for long time like PAF. They got 16 brand new Vs for $1.1 Billion.

F-16 Block 70 jets embark on Bahrain-bound ferry flight - Airforce Technology

Lockheed Martin has commenced the transportation of the initial set of F-16 Block 70 aircraft from Greenville, South Carolina, to Bahrain.

www.airforce-technology.com

However Jordan paid $4.2 Billion for just 12 F-16Vs, making them out to be $350 million a piece!!!!!

Jordan Signs for New-generation F-16 Fighters | AIN

The Middle East nation's air force has operated Fighting Falcon fighters for many years, and is now refreshing the fleet with AESA-equipped aircraft.

www.ainonline.com

then whats the criteria for paf?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

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It's an "opportunity cost".....

As for a change, it's truly mutual this time....

 

[Yasser76]

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Oh it does change things. You know have F-16s as well as J-20/J-17Cs that can go up against the Rafale. It changes a hell of a lot....

Now every single Indian pilot has to think of both the C8 and the PL-15 and to counter both.

Life got very complicated.....

 

[maxpane]

Oh it does change things. You know have F-16s as well as J-20/J-17Cs that can go up against the Rafale. It changes a hell of a lot....

Now every single Indian pilot has to think of both the C8 and the PL-15 and to counter both.

Life got very complicated.....

j20 bhai kiyun niyat kharab krty ho

 

[Yasser76]

then whats the criteria for paf?

Unsure, just very strange Bahrain paid $75 million and Jordan $300 million for same plane! Not matter how different the weapons/traning/spares packages are for both deals, that is a massive difference.